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141225581 about 2 years ago

thanks for letting me know.
I apparently drew that but forgot to split it and add the proper cables/circuits tags.

fixed it now.

126445738 about 2 years ago

No worries. I just saw those notes and looked what I could do, weather those roads are now tagged as SR 58 or not... I don't really care, that's not my area of intrest.

Just for your information, there is an "unsigned_ref=*" key, which might or might not fit better - but I'm not judging that

126445738 about 2 years ago

Are you sure that SR 58 still goes through Chattanooga?

There are
note/3507391
and
note/3507392
which say it dosen't.

I also looked at streetview images, and pretty much the section you added to the relation is not signed as being SR 58.

126371259 about 2 years ago

They are not "completely seperate".

power=generator represents a individual generating unit within a power plant, not "this area is used for power production".
It dosen't make sense to tag rows of solar panels as being seperate power=generator - a row of solar panels is not a generating unit.
(unless the only reason for adding them is that it the map looks prettier, then it dosen't matter)

If one really want to tag every individual generator within a solar farm, you would need to tag every single solar panel - even small 5MW farms have already multiple thousands, so that's obivously nonsense.

Therefore, I'm doing it like the U.S. Energy Information Administration does it within their US Generator Inventory, an Excel file containing every generating unit in the United States. They consider solar farms as being "one generating unit" per default - if the solar farm is expanded later, then that's another generating unit.

To cite a guideline, that would be the "one feature, one OSM object" one.

110682225 over 2 years ago

yes, I think

-sorry for the late reply

138606467 over 2 years ago

Hello,
"maop" refers to the "Maximum allowable operating pressure" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_allowable_operating_pressure).
This is usually different from the actual average pressure, sometimes even extremely different. This has various reasons, common example are changing natural gas markets.

The normal "pressure" key dosen't make an obvious distinction between those two types of pressure, therefore I created this key.
I don't know if it's a good solution, maybe it's better to use only one key, maybe not. I don't have strong opinions on it.

136237059 over 2 years ago

Hello, part of the quarry data is from the US Mine Safety & Health Administration's Mine Data Retrieval System, at https://www.msha.gov/data-and-reports/mine-data-retrieval-system
(Thus the ref:US:MSHA, you can look up addidional data on a specific quarry using the "search by mine ID")
Unfortunaly, none of this is georeferenced other than state/county and sometimes an address. The exact locations then have to be researched using the companies website or other means.
However, it is still a very good source (the website is unfortunaly very slow, but hey, it works).

It also includes thousands of abandoned quarries, many from the 90s, 80s, 70s and even earlier. They are usually still somewhere hidden in the woods, but the data is not not georeferenced, so very extensive research will be needed there.

Hope this helps you!

137321649 over 2 years ago

"actual" source? I didn't tag any source at all. geojson described in the other comment.

Nothing from any outside sources was added here.

137533993 over 2 years ago

It is visible, from cuttings, valves, pig launchers, meter stations, markers etc... the other details are from the public domain https://pvnpms.phmsa.dot.gov/PublicViewer/ and other details researched via https://elibrary.ferc.gov/eLibrary/search, a government database containing 2 million regulatory documents related to the US power sector (probably hundreds of millions of pages), you'll find basically everything there if you know how to use it.

137420315 over 2 years ago

Some public domain data (for example nat. gas compressors, manufacturing facilities, pumping stations, gas storages) from the US HIFLD & Alltheplaces excerpts which I use as reference. (still everything is confirmed via the websites or other means, (for example HIFLD manufacturing is +10 years old, so this is also obviously nesessary)) I could also open the data in a new tab, and use it as a reference then, but this saves time and is especially more comfortable.

(using data as a reference is not copying, and especially not importing)

136643941 over 2 years ago

This is public domain HIFLD data which I use as reference.

136183556 over 2 years ago

Source? Probably logic?
Tagging an single row of solar panels dosen't make sense, because it isn't a "generating unit".

A solar generating unit is either

- a single solar cell/solar panel. A solar farm this size consists of ~+250,000 individual panels. - Mapping every single of those as a generator might be correct, but is BS for obvious reasons.

- or all panels as one generating unit. (with exceptions) This is how the US EIA Electric Generator inventory handles it (US generation standart), and it is the best option. It dosen't yield absurd results like "this solar farm consists of 5,6k generators" (it consists of 250k generators). Also tags like generator:output:electricity are impossible to tag on those small areas.

TLDR: Mapping 5k ways might look good on the renderer, but dosen't look good on the background of electric generation data.
(This MP is the solar farm's generating unit > those 5000 areas are the solar farms' generating units, which is wrong)

136427088 over 2 years ago

I'm unsure which "detailed information" you mean as this isn't particularly detailed?
rail tags/geometries are obvious, name/operator "Rail Logix" is from multiple job openings.
The other industry details are researched from companies' websites.

137126361 over 2 years ago

Which information exactly do you mean?
Most is from the aerial imagery.

The voltage tags are inferred from connecting lines. They are additionally verified via company documents & reports and government reports (for example at https://elibrary.ferc.gov/eLibrary/search, FERC Form 1 Substations)

operator is similar. If I know the general operating area of an utility (example https://www.swepco.com/lib/docs/company/about/SWEPCOServiceTerritory_Cities2018.pdf), and public records at FERC indicate presence of substations/lines by that company, they're tagged as part of that company.
Also a very important aspect is just general (local) knowledge about how the electric transmission grid works. With the knowledge I have today, there's actually a lot of 'old'/my first power/electricity mapping of mine in Georgia, which I had (&still have) to clean up, by the way.

The reason this was uploaded with JOSM was simply because there were unresolveable conflicts while I tried to upload with iD (related to note/3726315), so I downloaded my changes into JOSM to resolve the conflicts/upload from there.

Hope this answers the questions.

136252464 over 2 years ago

Hello,
the source is the US Mine Safety & Health Administration (ref:US:MSHA, https://www.msha.gov/data-and-reports/mine-data-retrieval-system - government data, loads very slowly but is at least public domain)

I invented the rock_type tag because well; I want to express weather the mined dimension rock is granite or marble. I also invented aggregate:rock_type, to express which rock type the aggregate consists of - granite, limestone or something else. ("aggregate" is probably better known as "crushed rock", used for concrete, asphalt and other construction)
I also invented "ref:US:MSHA" because the MSHA records contain further valuable information, such as operator history, accidents, safety violations & more stuff. (Key's format based at similar "ref:US:EIA" for US power plants)

Hope this answers your questions!
Greetings

136108254 over 2 years ago

way/1153386544 and
way/1120071971
hasn't been conflated, should be fixed.

I appreciate your work nonetheless.

135246373 over 2 years ago

public shaming how cool!

just bad that those empty nodes are the result from some experts deleting building outline ways while leaving the nodes there, so don't blame me if you have no clue.

135088069 over 2 years ago

Power details come from a variety of sources.
- Sand Hill Substation: Category "Educated Guess". Substations are always named after nearby places - preferably after the next populated place. Exceptions are when there multiple substations at one populated place. This is my experience from a lot of other substations where I have explicit data about the name available.
H o w e v e r, because Sand Hill is only an unincorporated community and not very far away from Ellisville, there might be a very low chance that it is actually named after something else & in hindsight I wouldn't have named it like that (even through I'm still relatively certain about it)
- Cooperative Energy Lines: An excellent reference is the EIA Form 860 data, government collected data about every US power plant. One entry is the operator of the interconnecting line (and their voltage).
https://www.eia.gov/electricity/data/eia860/
Just a few miles south of Sand Hill Substation is the Cooperative Energy's Moselle Power Plant - the Grid Operator is listed as "South MS Electic Association", which is Coop. Energy (renamed themselfes a few years ago). Now using a combination of other power plant data which also feed cooperative energy lines, the Coop.Energy system area map https://cooperativeenergy.com/energy-resources/transmission-system-map/, rarely some parcel ownership data, annual reports (according to which they operate 1800 miles of transmission line), construction/expansion project related documents/websites and more. Each source must be viewed somewhat critical, but all in all, it draws a good picture.
Still, I'm sometimes unsure and then I don't tag an operator (or add it later when I have more clarity).
And by the way, sometimes I'm closer than it seems ;)
---------------
Most power lines were not exactly untouched for 15 years, but most are still basically unimproved, even after being touched multiple times. But well, a few were actually improved good enouth & shouldn't have been deleted whatsoever, I understand.
I don't think I offended anyone, certainly not everyone. But ok, I'll get back to editing now. Mass edits will be avoided, turns out deleting the lines directly before retracing would've now been faster anyway...

135088069 over 2 years ago

"Was it not disrespectful to do a mass deletion in the first place?"
***A mass deletion of low quality data from an 15 year old import. Not a mass deletion of data into which someone put a lot of effort.
I don't see how that's disrespectful to anyone.
"It's obvious to anyone that that's against community guidelines." - Deleting low quality imported data in order to improve is againest community guidelines now, noted, will not happen again.
...funny that you're here telling me stories about "community guidelines" when you massively broke those exact guidelines 2 months ago, thats quite hypocritical (changeset/133425452&133388647+hundreds more for reference)

"you're not even willing to consider a situation in which your well-intentioned work may have done more harm than good."
Of course I have! But other than the unconnected poles/towers, which was the original problem, I don't see any other harm. And I fixed those, because the deletion of these specific ways actually caused harm. If I wouldn't have considered that this CS harmed something, I wouldn't have spend my time finding&restoring those ways. By "sides", I mean simply people seeing this changeset as positive and people seeing it as negative.

I'd never expect that even deleting poor tiger data (in order to efficiently improve it) at a bit larger scale offends some people that much - but certainly important to know, I guess

135088069 over 2 years ago

"You cannot unilaterally decide..."
- That's not my decision, that's a straight fact. That's how convinced I am of myself here! Narcissist? No, we're talking about data from the Tiger import, which was what I mainly deleted here. I think anyone who has ever worked with Tiger(power lines) will be convinced that their edits are better than TIGER.
If you're seriously questioning if my work on power lines is worse than orginal TIGER power lines, then that's extremely disrespectful. (I don't think you do, but it somewhat sounds like that)

Preserving history is important - but which history? None of the lines have more than two tags - power=line and voltage=*. Power=line is obvious on the aerial image, voltage is somewhat easily interpretable from other connecting lines. ("somewhat" because some people failed or just guessed some wrong values)
Nothing that I have deleted here was some kind of "special" information, no on the ground survey, no special data digged from the depth of government docs, generally nothing which isn't directly obvious, nothing which is worth preserving.

The claim that this data is/was "valid" is highly questionable. Straight power lines have countless weird slight offsets - sometimes even hundreds of meters. Better no data than being that imprecise, IMO.
(no data for a few months only)

I see that asking local people about it (e.g. on slack MS channel) would've been better and I apologize for not doing so. (and I won't do such deletions of low quality data anymore).
However, I don't see what should be the point of a revert now. I spend a lot of my time working on a solution which could have satisfied the interests of both sides - Not one sentence lost over this, and I'm once again supposed to be the idiot conflating this trashy TIGER data with the lines I already retraced (which are actually quite a lot) - so that I can delete them in two months again when retracing.