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156790706 over 1 year ago

Afaik The default osm map was initially intended as a feedback mechanism for mappers, not end users, though in practice it became the "default" raster map. It doesn't even have a separate way to show cycling-pedestrian ways and the pedestrian won't know where they can walk. You can't really split all cycling-pedestrian paths.

Just cycleway:oneway=* will be shown as blue "cycleway" without directions which is also not ideal.

Though IMO there is nothing incorrect data-wise in using just cycleway:oneway=* without oneway.

Note that there is a similar situation on Majaka.

157458174 over 1 year ago

Such frequent placement of nodes creates an impression that they were mapped from a really high-quality data source. While in reality in some places they drift from the actual path or follow gps noise.

I think in some places where nodes are too close, they could be cleaned up. For example node/12222260553

Also there are places with quite straight segments, but they still have multiple nodes in-between. For example this node
node/12222260272

157458174 over 1 year ago

Hi,
nice paths, but keep in mind that your GPS isn't that accurate. Your lines have TOO MANY points. I've checked some paths against Maa-amet's lidar data and they are off by more than distance between neighboring nodes.

BTW, this path you've deleted
https://pewu.github.io/osm-history/#/way/991301657
is visible on lidar imagery too. But maybe it's overgrown. I've walked it like 2 years ago.

157427998 over 1 year ago

consider this tag too

vending=gas

157309741 over 1 year ago

Hi and welcome back!
Just for your information, you don't need to add all those

bicycle=yes
foot=yes
horse=yes
motor_vehicle=yes

They are assumed by default.

157288608 over 1 year ago

Hi, to restrict access through a gate, you need a node on the road. So the gate, which is represented here as a line and the road must have node in common on their intersection.

Add the same tags on this gate node as you've added on the gate way.

It's ok that node and way will duplicate each other.

I recommend to use access=private instead of no though. Construction vehicles can probably pass here.

I also recommend removing all other more accurate access tags like bicycle=no, since they will use the default access value if not specified.

157111365 over 1 year ago

As I understand the removal / attempt to make the track from the asphalt road in Kõlli järv direction was a mistake and you've fixed it. And for you the question is about the other direction.

I've restored the road where it clearly exists on aerial imagery with a private access and deleted the new track along the asphalt road.

As for cycling route I'm not sure - it's a really local route which may not exist anymore, that's why I'm not sure there is a point in inventing something.

157111365 over 1 year ago

1) The question is about this road
https://osmcha.org/changesets/157111365?filters=%7B%22users%22%3A%5B%7B%22label%22%3A%22EdnaV%22%2C%22value%22%3A%22EdnaV%22%7D%5D%2C%22date__gte%22%3A%5B%7B%22label%22%3A%22%22%2C%22value%22%3A%22%22%7D%5D%7D

the southern part was completely erased, but I guess it's still there at least partially.

2) Thanks for clearing this up, that there indeed are signs. (Though just "eramaa" sign doesn't forbid cyclists and pedestrians by itself). Still, a road is a road and map should reflect this. You should not delete it. We should just tag it as private. Different tags can be added to show how well maintained it is. See wiki for surface and grade.

5) I see that you are adding a track besides the road. I don't see it on aerial imagery. Is it there in reality?

way/1319289551#map=16/58.02593/26.39754

6) What's the source for the bicycle route being redirected there? Are there signs or any other data source? I think if the route is not maintained enough - it goes through roads where access was forbidden and there is no info on the internet, we should just remove it from at least those roads, but not invent a new route.

157111365 over 1 year ago

Please stop your edits immediately, I'll write in more detail.

157111365 over 1 year ago

Hi,
1) why did you delete the track to the south of the Arula - Sihva?
2) The track to the North is not a track anymore - it's nothing, just a line. It should stay a highway=track
3) If you want to set a private access, use access=private instead of access=no
4) Are there any signs which forbid access to the North? I can't see any from here
https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=58.02855439999999&lng=26.392600399999992&z=17.401561976662112&focus=photo&pKey=330148892913506&x=0.4077168312691912&y=0.6121442493294554&zoom=0.6976744186046513

152756091 over 1 year ago

I meant the use_sidepath issue here :)

152747787 over 1 year ago

Changing the default in iD would result in people starting to change highway=cycleway into highway=path. With two schemes I think the best thing is to just bring awareness of them.

152756091 over 1 year ago

Well, the data isn't about safety. It's your and router's job. And simple routers with a single cycling profile will never accommodate all situations and users.

152747787 over 1 year ago

If there were routing issues related to having highway=path instead of highway=cycleway, please contact the developer of the router, it's clearly a bug.

There is not much discussion under the thread because Estonian community isn't very active. There were quite a lot discussions in changeset comments before I've created it. If you don't agree, you can post in that thread.

The way of using highway=path is documented in the wiki and is actually used in many countries in practice, some of which even changed iD Editor's default.

For example, Vespucci editor uses highway=path, if I remember right.

But anyway, I think that the main thing is that we don't change this back-and-forth in a useless edit war.

152756091 over 1 year ago

Please contact the developer of the router if you think that it's not working properly. OSM is about data and access tags are about legal restrictions.

Routing through carriageway should not be forbidden for those who want to use it. It's up to the people to decide where it's safer. Someone may not want to be near kids at 40+ km/h or reduce his speed to a pedestrian speed at every crossing (required by law) or maybe taking the curbs aren't really comfortable on his bike. If a car fits on the road then a bike fits too. There is no such thing as a "car road" in road traffic act.

For example, brouter has different profiles to accommodate different cyclists. It's up to router and the user to make the decision. See how it takes bicycle-pedestrian path with Safety profile https://brouter.m11n.de/#map=14/59.5262/24.8634/standard,route-quality&lonlats=24.837491,59.515656;24.90476,59.504387&profile=safety

Personal example: I usually don't bike fast, but here way/204921428
when going downhill I always take the carriageway since I have quite a high speed and the sidepath has people walking, drivers pulling out from private houses not expecting anyone fast, there is also a non-see-through fence at the end restricting visibility before crossing which is dangerous if you're cycling fast, as drivers pull out from Metsarahva tee quite fast.

156429443 over 1 year ago

Hi, I'm pretty sure this is a footway. It had a footway sign and they even added a cycling forbidden sign from the East. Unless something changed.

way/953091299/

152719377 over 1 year ago

Actually, footway=sidewalk can stay, even if it's not a highway=footway, it's still a sidewalk

152748307 over 1 year ago

It was already connected.

I'm not against this way of connecting it, but here is a leftover which should be removed.

way/956393160#map=21/59.4403325/24.7535226&layers=C

Please check things first with CyclOSM or OpenCycleMap, they help a lot in understanding what's mapped.

152768754 over 1 year ago

* there is no shoulder to bike on this road, it's pretty narrow

152768754 over 1 year ago

misleading tag fixed