Agree with all of this.

With my cycle.travel hat on, it is really troublesome when people map EuroVelo routes which are not yet signposted and may go down unsuitable roads/tracks - too busy, too rough, or sometimes actually forbidden to bikes. It screws up routing and cartography something chronic. If they’re mapped with state=proposed then i don’t object too much but, as you say, often for copyright reasons they shouldn’t be added at all.

@nickjohnston: the maps are fine, NLS have said to OSM that they’re keen for us to use their scans. Besides that, there’s no basis in British law for asserting a “thin copyright” on derived information purely because you’ve copyrighted the scans themselves - indeed, it’s even debatable whether faithful scans pass the threshold to be copyrighted in the first place (the IPO now appears to be of the opinion they don’t).

OSM iterates towards completeness. This has been the case since the first days of the project.

You don’t have to map everything to 100% levels of detail to begin with. It’s absolutely fine to map something at reduced detail, and then people will come along and refine it over time. That’s how OSM has always worked.

And it generates additional datasets /changesets, what is inflating our data base also unnecessary.

This is a canard. The impact on the database is trivial and the sysadmins are more than equal to the task of maintaining it.

@aeonesa There is absolutely no need to be so offensive.

we need a general tagging scheme in place for county, state, and non-designated

Please make sure that you make sure that unpaved roads/tracks are clearly distinguishable as such. (In other words, highway=residential/unclassified/etc. should always have a surface tag if they’re not paved.) Florida is currently one of the best states for this and it would be a shame to lose that.

Though a route planning map that visually indicates road surface would be really nice

cough

https://cycle.travel/map

I wouldn’t bother tagging Carphone Warehouses within Currys PC World at all, other than perhaps an additional shop=mobile_phone node. We don’t tag their KnowHow repair brand separately, after all. (Similarly, Morrisons call their fresh produce section “Market Street” yet we don’t tag it separately.)

And in cycle.travel: https://cycle.travel/map?lat=47.1939&lon=14.744&zoom=13

…including the turn-by-turn directions: https://cycle.travel/map?from=47.177,14.686&to=47.1599,14.7605

@n76 You’re welcome to do so, but bear in mind that an MTB trail tagged simply with ‘highway=path, bicycle=yes’ is completely indistinguishable (to routers and other clients) from the thousands of km of French voie verte already tagged that way - even though the cycling experience is very, very different.

Fuck’s sake Ilya, try and be a human being sometimes.

Can I implore you to come over to Britain and run our electoral system? Like, before Thursday? :(

@literan It’s not acceptable for anyone to say “a developer should be a servant of the community”. A developer is a part of the community. It takes mutual respect. There are things in iD, and JOSM, and osm-carto, and osm-website, and pretty much every part of OSM that are not exactly how I’d do them. That does not give me or you or anyone the right to start issuing ultimatums.

@ain92, it would perhaps behove you to have a bit more experience in OpenStreetMap than 100 changesets before you start telling long-standing and dedicated contributors what is “unacceptable” and demand that “ultimatums” are issued.

Frederik, I think you (and Mikel) could usefully reflect on your role in this - or lack thereof - as OSMF directors. Saying nothing for n years and then firing off a broadside just as you leave office is pretty weak sauce.

Most of this ultimately comes down to the differences (which can be overstated) between “craftmapper” OSM and “corporate” OSM, aka between European OSM and American OSM. Unsurprisingly, if you have an editor which is developed by American programmers employed by large OSM-using corporations, it is going to lean more towards the American/corporate side of things. The fact that the divergences are mostly as minor as “the developers prefer the 1 out of the 500 OSM communications channels I don’t use”, or “the developers have an opinion on tagging, a subject on which no two people ever agree, with which I disagree”, or “the developers load images from servers I don’t like”, suggests they’re doing a good job in the round IMO.

But that’s only my personal view. The point is that OSMF could have done something about it. If OSMF feels that iD is not fully representing the OSM contributor base, then OSMF, which has £££ in the bank, could fund a European maintainer - or, perhaps better, a “community maintainer” - to join Bryan and Quincy. It hasn’t done. As a director, that is your choice by omission.

Maintaining the default editor is not easy. That is something that has been public knowledge since 2013, arguably long before. It is probably unrealistic to expect anyone to work on it without being paid, particularly given the grand tradition of “BAN POTLATCH” postings like this. You are smarter than the Potlatch Banners of yesteryear, not just more articulate, and I am a little disappointed by this posting.

You might be interested to know that there is precedent for this in the UK. We tag the Broads as a national_park even though strictly speaking it isn’t quite one. (National Parks in the UK have to abide by the Sandford Principle - “where irreconcilable conflicts exist between conservation and public enjoyment, then conservation interest should take priority” - whereas on the Broads, navigation has equal priority.) But it quacks like a duck, and after I enjoyed cycling through the Catskills a few years ago I can see why you’ve taken the same decision.

Basically I need to finish the (mostly working) port to AIR, which will enable Potlatch to become a desktop application for Mac and Windows - potentially Linux too but that depends on whether I can keep compatibility with the ancient version of AIR that Adobe released before they EOLed it. AIR has recently been hived off to a company called Harman (a subsidiary of Samsung) and it’s not quite clear what’s happening there, but I think it’s probably got a few more years in it.

At present P2 doesn’t have release numbers because I can’t remember how the system works (I think Andy set it up and it’s connected with git tags or something). If I have the time to figure it out then I’ll give it a release number but for now it doesn’t have one.

Justice has no place at their table, and thus neither do I

Bye then.

Yep:

• Find a way/node with that selection of tags (create a dummy one if you need to!)
• Press Shift and that function key
• From then on, you can press that function key to recall the tags

Pretty much all of my TIGER fixup is done this way - so F1 is ‘layer=1, bridge=yes’, F3 is ‘highway=unclassified, surface=gravel’, and so on.

Sorry - Google Translate probably isn’t a usable source for OSM. The algorithms they use for translation are copyright Google and it’s very likely that some Google-tainted data finds its way into the results. If you really want to use it I’d suggest asking the Licensing Working Group for an opinion.