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72988866 over 6 years ago

These landuse polygons are not the official demarcations and I'm quite sure they will lead to wrong address results.

For example, have a look at this commit: relation/9882375/history
I'm absolutely not sure whether these landuse polygons are anywhere near the true demarcation between Severinovka and Kamenka. According to the polygons, there are now two улица Вершигоры in Kamenka, while in reality there is only one. So you will end up with wrong results. landuse=residential in Transnistria is very often an approximation and these inaccurate polygons should not be used for address search.

72988866 over 6 years ago

Why do you tag residential areas as place:village? This is just a residential area and no offical border.
The official borders of the village are as follows and includes the village of Mereneshty: relation/6879649

72988734 over 6 years ago

Why do you tag residential areas as place:village? This is just a residential area and no offical border.
The official borders of the village are as follows: relation/8292878

70986897 over 6 years ago

Yes, it is officially a "ПГТ" - which is not identical to village. I didn't know about the page at osm.wiki/RU:Tag:place%3Dvillage . The rules specified there are specifically for Russia. According to my personal experience of visiting it, I'd say it's approriate to classify it as a town, but that's just my opinio and I have no problem if Krasnoye gets downgraded to village on OSM. Interestingly, Wikipedia says that Krasnoye is officially a town according to Moldovan legislation. There are much smaller places that are officially tagged as a town, for example Frunză in Ocnita district.

Interestingly enough, according to the Russian OSM wiki page cited above, Кицканы/Chițcani should be tagged as town...

69697641 over 6 years ago

Hello Moldovan_Merkaator,
I don't think raising the administrative level to 4 for all Moldovan districts is the right thing to do. Such changes should not be done without prior consultation with the community. Please don't unilaterally change such major aspects of the map. Also, please keep in mind that admin_level should allow for some kind of comparability. I don't think Moldovan raions can be compared to Romanian Județele or Russian and Ukrainian oblasts (which all have admin_level=4). Also there's inconsistency in you changes, as for example what makes a Raion in Transnistria different from a Raion Moldova? Why should Transnistrian raions only have admin_level=4 while the degree of autonomy they have, their average population, their legal status, etc is the same.

69372246 over 6 years ago

Hi Bekri, ja, stimmt, die Gebäude darin sollten mit building:part eingetragen werden. Das ganze ist tatsächlich ein zusammenhängendes Gebäude (war auch jahrelang so gemappt, bis es vor einiger Zeit von irgendeinem nicht orts-ansässigen Mapper auf landuse=yes umgemappt wurde). Ist eine etwas merkwürdige Konstruktion aus riesigem Parkunterbau, auf dem dann unterschiedliche Wohnhochhäuser "drauf"stehen.

69311757 over 6 years ago

Hey, I agree there should be no adress points, but these adresses should be somehow preserved. I think they should only be deleted when the corresponding buildings are drawn.

69215880 over 6 years ago

Hello Moldovan_Merkator,
according to my information, the Northern sector of Bender is under control of the PMR. See for example this post with on the ground photos: https://varandej.livejournal.com/518648.html

68712220 over 6 years ago

I agree that these names should be in Romanian by default, but why do you say these names are inexistent?

68630390 almost 7 years ago

Sorry, my fault. Yes, it should be share_taxi.

66393104 almost 7 years ago

Abkhaz and Russian are both official languages in separatist Abkhazia, but Russian is more widely used and it has an established method for its transcription into German or English, while such thing does not exist for Abkhaz. Transliteration is actively discouraged from being used in OSM as they can much better be generated automatically by scripts or tools.

There is no centralized authority that defines by which name a place in Abkhazia has to be referred to. I am a native speaker of German, and besides Russian, I have a high fluency in English and French and speakers of these languages definitely don't "automatically use Soviet/Georgian" names, because 90-95% of speakers of those languages probably don't know a single city or village in Abkhazia, and if they do, it's mostly Sukhumi. Just because the German or French government recognize Abkhazia as part of Georgia doesn't mean they oblige their citizens to use a Georgian-based transcription of place names in Abkhazia.

By the way, in case of German, there is considerable "proof" that, in the rare cases when Abkhazia appears in books, media, etc, often a Russian-based spelling is used. Russian is still one of the most popular foreign languages here and some citizens of the former GDR have visited Abkhazia. One place that at least a few Germans know is Pitsunda. There are several books about it ("Hochzeitstag in Pizunda", "Pizunda, die hellblaue Meeresbucht") and they all refer to it by its Abkhaz/Russian name, and don't call it "Bitschwinta", which would be the German transcription of the Georgian name.

In case of "Otschamtschyra", that name is also used by German media, for example here: https://www.mainpost.de/regional/bad-kissingen/Mein-Herz-ist-in-Otschamtschyra;art766,5948095
However, in this case "Otschamtschira" is used more commonly, especially in academic publications.

Even "Gjatschrypsch" is specifically referred to by it's Russian-based spelling: http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-66567972.html

You cannot compare the ties Turkey has to Akhaltsikhe, which once belonged to the Ottoman Empire and was mostly inhabited by Turks (Meskhetians) until the mid 20th century to the ones Germany and France have had to Abkhazia. They were and still are almost zero. The average German or French probably doesn't even know Abkhazia exists. No speaker of those languages automatically switches to the Soviet or Georgian name when referring to a place in Abkhazia because he doesn't know it. Nor does he know the current Russian or Abkhaz name.

The point here is, that while both the Georgian/Soviet and the Abkhaz/Russian names are completely unknown to almost every speaker of those languages, the old Georgian/Soviet name actually has zero practical use in Abkhazia for a speaker of those languages. They are not used on signs anymore, locals younger than 35 probably have never heard of the old names, older people might even react with anger in some cases.
If a speaker of German sees "Gjatschripsch" on the map, it will allow him pronounce the name currently used on the ground, even if he doesn't read Cyrillic. "Lesselidse" will get him nowhere and would be in contrast to the name used on the ground.
For example Stepanakert, capital of Nagorno-Karabakh, is also refered to by it's Armenian-based spelling and not as "Xankəndi" in German despite the German government also not recognizing the separatist government there.

66393104 almost 7 years ago

As a native speaker of German and as someone having a very high fluency in English, I can assure you that 99,9% of speakers of those languages have never heard of Gyachripsh/Leselidze and almost every other place in Abkhazia. With the exception of Sukhumi, there is no native name for any city or village in Abkhazia in either English or German. So the only purpose these transcriptions fulfill is enabling foreigners to pronounce place names.

The point is, for someone who speaks German or English and can't read Cyrillic and happens to be in Abkhazia, the old Soviet / Georgian names are useless. They are not used on signs anymore and younger people who weren't born during Soviet times often don't know these names anymore. So when you ask a local for Gyachripsh, he will understand, but when you ask a 20-something about Leselidze he is likely to not know what place you mean. Leselidze is a name no longer used on the ground.

The only place in Abkhazia which is at least somewhat known in the German-speaking countries is Sukhumi. Most German media refers to it as "Suchumi".

66393104 almost 7 years ago

Please stop these kind of edits. They violate OSM's on the ground truth rule and will only be reverted. This only causes more work for everyone. If you think Abkhazia should be mapped primarily in Georgian, please use the forum and start a discussion.

66467023 almost 7 years ago

Hello Moldovan_Merkator, I have *for now* reverted this changeset to re-restablish tagging consistency in Transnistria. So far Tiraspol was the only place which had it's main tagging in more than one language. If such changes in tagging policy shall be applied, I think it's necessary to apply them to all of Transnistria immediatly.

I'm not per se against multilingual place names in Transnistria. But if such multilingual tagging shall be used, we need further discussion. Which language should be used first, which one second? Should Ukrainian names be added as well? Should only place names be bilingual, or street names as well?

66353320 almost 7 years ago

Oh yes, you are right. I got confused since UATSN still bears the same name as the separatist region in my native language German. I thought you had changed the separatist region. Sorry for that.

About the on-the-ground rule: Yes, PMR has three official languages, but I don't know whether they should all be included in the main name tag. I am in principle very favourable of multilingual name tagging, but in case of Transnistria there are certain precautions to be taken. The only language that is consistenly found throught all of Transnistria (on road signs, town signs, etc) is Russian. Some streets simpy only have a Russian name and I couldn't find a street sign in any other language. Adding the Moldovan Cyrillic spelling might often make sense, since Moldovan Cyrillic is really widely used in addition to Russian on signs, but still this is only true for about ~60% of all signs. I don't think it makes a lot of sense to add Ukrainian. It will only make labels very long and therefore hard to render on the map. I don't think I've ever seen a Ukrainian road sign outside of a few streets in Tiraspol and Bender, and even there, most road signs are in Russian and Moldovan Cyrillic or Russian only. Ukrainian is rarely used "on the ground" as in Ukrainian names are only rarely found on signs. There are several countries or regions that are theoretically officially multilingual, but in practice only one or two languages are really used on official signs. For example isiZulu is on of the official languages of South Africa, but it's very rarely used on signs and there for not used in the main name tag on OSM.

First, it must be noted that the situation for street names and place names is different.
It was me who added approximately 90% of the Romanian and Moldovan Cyrillic names, and I added almost 100% of the Ukrainian names. Here in OSM, Ukrainian names in Transnistria are almost always literal translations of the Russian names but I often cannot confirm their use on the ground. Since Russian and Ukrainian are closely related, there's still often only one possible translation in Ukrainian, which is sometimes an only slightly different spelling of the Russian name. The case is different for Moldovan Cyrillic. There are missing lots of Moldovan Cyrillic names. I'd say only 60% of roads in Transnistria are tagged with a Moldovan Cyrillic name, and here you cannot simply translate names as in the case of Ukrainian. For example I've seen a "Садовая улица" being called "Страда Садовая" in one case and "Страда Ливезилор" in another.

I think it makes sense to add Moldovan Cyrillic names to villages and towns, but I'd strongly argue against the use of another language than Russian for streets and POIs. Not always, but in many cases a new translation would have to be "made up" which is not used on signs. And there would often be more than one available translation. For example how would you translate "Победа" in Romanian? Biruința or Victoria?

66353320 almost 7 years ago

Hello Moldovan_Merkator, yes this is the name of the internationally recognized subunit of Moldova. However, this is not identical to the de-facto state of Transnistria (PMR). On OSM, we have the so called on-the-ground rule. That is we try to map the factically existing ground truth. And it's a matter of fact that, for example Bender, Chitcan, etc are controlled by the separatists. and this should be visible on the map. For example someone not familiar with the political situation might blindly follow the map and get into serious trouble for "illegally" crossing into separatist Transnistria. So we must keep the factically existing separatist Transnistria in addition to the Moldovan autonomous region. In other separatist areas, this solution was also applied. Please note this is not a political statement, just arguing for the on-the-ground rule.

64221222 about 7 years ago

Ok, I don't know first-hand who controls Roghi, but there are numerous hint that it's in fact the PMR.

This video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5u1dLc8mtc) for example shows numerous signs in Roghi where PMR symbols are clearly visible (for example at minute 7:00). The video is from Transnistrian state TV, but definitely not fake, as buildings shown in the video can be geolocated. Also, the Moldovan Yellow pages (yp.md) show zero entries for Roghi, while the Transnistrian equivalent to it (pmr.md) shows numerous entries for it.
I've found several other videos where PMR symbols can be seen within Roghi, but I haven't seen any proof of Moldovan authorities controlling it. Can you show me any proof that Roghi is controlled by regular Moldovan authorities?

I also want to make clear that my goal here is not politically motivated. I want OSM to objectively reflect the on-the-ground situation as exactly as possible. For example, I removed Copanca from Transnistria on OSM, since it is not controlled by it. I also re-added borders between Cocieri and Dubossary, since Cocieri was incorrectly marked as being controlled by the PMR. I did not revert your changeset to make a political statement, but because I have very serious doubts that Roghi is under control of Moldova.

61615914 over 7 years ago

What happened here?
way/616519193

58009340 over 7 years ago

*quite inaccurate, sorry

58009340 over 7 years ago

Some of them - but not all of them, were indeed drawn by me. I agree that many of them were indeed quite accurate, like the one of Муцалаул. Please don't delete all of them, just the ones that are drawn roughly.