Achja, nur noch mal zur Bestaetigung: Hier nachfragen war natuerlich auch richtig.

Ich nutze ein Garmin (eTrex Legend HCx) sowohl zum Kartieren als auch zum Navigieren. Man hat mal eben eine ganze Europakarte dabei, hat ein sehr genaue (+/-2m) und schnelle Ortung, funktioniert auch als Autonavi und der Akku haelt ca. 2 Tage.

Mein Telefon (Samsung Galaxy S, Android) hat ebenfalls eine Offline KartenApp (Locus), allerdings ohne Navigation. Mit halbherzigem Suchen habe ich leider auch noch keine Alternative zur Onlinenavigation a la Google Maps gefunden, es gibt aber wohl kostenpflichtige Programme dafuer. Der grosse Nachteil des Telefons: Der Akku haelt bei Dauernutzung nur etwa 4 Stunden. Dabei ist der GPS Empfang nur ungenau (+/-15m) und das Finden der Sateliten dauert ewig. Zum Geocachen OK, zum Navigieren und OSM Tracks aufzeichen nicht zu gebrauchen.

There are different kinds of errors wich all have to be taken into account. Image maps tend to be shifted in some direction by up to 50m for absolute position, but are very good in terms of relation between points. So if you want to get the shape of a park or the size of a pool, go for the image maps (that is: bing, you know you are not allowed to use google, right?).

GPS traces are also error prone, but at least you normally know how much. You can't take the "+/-2m" literally, you might still be off by 10m, but it is a start. As every single point in a gps track might have a different error, those traces are not good for accurate shapes or relations, but within a margin they give you a good absolute position. You'll get even more accurate data when averaging over multiple tracks. Best done with different devices, on different days.

There are of course errors even averaging will not correct. A big building which blocks half the sky and reflects the other half will always interfere with the gps signal. A straight road in front of such a building will have a slight bend, even after averaging. Use common sense and local knowledge (or image maps) to know which roads are straight and which are not.

Hope that helps a bit ...

Hallo,

Was du am besten tust, wenn du einen Fehler in der Karte findest, hängt ganz davon ab, was du dir an Bearbeitung zutraust und wie der Fehler aussieht.

Wenn du mit einem der tools zurechtkommst und eine Fläche definitiv falsch ist (also nicht nur falsch beschrieben, sondern in Wirklichkeit nicht vorhanden) kannst du sie löschen. Für Notfälle bleibt alles in der History gespeichert. Sollte die Fläche nur falsch beschrieben sein, nicht ganz korrekt an der richtigen Stelle liegen oder die falsche Form haben, sollte man sie nicht löschen, sonder lieber korrigieren.
Traust du dir das nicht zu, ist das Eintragen eines neuen OpenStreetBugs genau die richtige Lösung. Alternativ kannst du versuchen, den OSM-Nutzer herauszubekommen, der das Feature angelegt hat und ihn zu kontaktieren.

Also Adresssuche funktioniert mit kleinen Einschraenkungen auf meinem Garmin. Man muss nur die Adresse immer vollstaendig eingeben, die komplettierung funktioniert nicht, die Liste bleibt leer bis man den *ganzen* Ortsnamen eingegeben hat. Dann gehts sogar hausnummerngenau. (eTrex Legend)

Ich verwende allerdings vorcompilierte Karten, allerdings trotzdem welche, die meines Wissens nach mit mkgmap erstellt wurden.

Bitte sieh doch davon ab, die OSM-Daten so zu veraendern, dass deine Anzeige in irgend einem Geraet/Software passt. Das faellt unter "wir mappen nicht fuer die Renderer". Das muss in mkgmap oder sonstwo korrigiert werden, nicht in OSM. Wobei es aber generell mehrere Meiningen zu Hausnummern und Gebaeuden gibt. Die Hausnummer an Einzelnodes zu Schreiben, ergibt beispielsweise auch bei mehreren Eingaengen Sinn.

Took a look at it yesterday. It still is in an alpha state and needs a lot of work before becoming usable or even a competition for google maps / navigation.

But it's a start and I'm happy that there is someone working on a mobile routing software based on OSM. Thumbs up and good luck!

Thank you very much.

I've so far concluded that 'Reverse Geocoding' is what I need and that GeoNames supports it, but not based on OSM data.

Yours looks very good. Just what I needed. I just have to look at for what countries it is usable.

Thanks again very much!

I've too once fallen for the impression that I could fix those mapdust problems with 'armchair mapping'. Well you can't.

In my surroundings I see a lot of speedtag-issues without the right speed entered, missing house-numbers without the actual number, missing house-number with the number, but placed right in the middle of the street (which damn house does he mean?) or missing turn restrictions without a further hint on from where to where.

You still have to go out there and have a look. You may now what to look for with the help of the mapdust error type and comment, but you just can't fix them without verifying them on the ground.

While it still is useful, it's mostly not more than a 'take a closer look in this area' indicator.

[just posted this on the wiki discussion page]

Thumbs Up from me. I would really like to share my models I used to donate to Google.

I would prefer the 'external database' approach, as these models have nothing to do with the map data, neither technically nor logically. OSM is not a 3D representations of the world. It doesn't even include terrain height so far.

I would furthermore propose the collada file format for the 3D models, as it is an open, xml based format. It's machine- and human readable and would even allow osm specific extensions. (It would also allow easy sharing of models already created for google, as the sketchup-tool supports it.)

All we would need in the osm database is an anchor point. Mapping the local coordinate system of the model to the global system of the map would fall in the reign of the renderer.

Looking forward to this

Ok, bei mir sind es Daten aus 2003, da gab es schon einige Aenderungen. Auch auf dem Land.

Bei Strassen und Haeusern sehe ich das uebrigens genauso, besser alte Daten als gar keine Daten

Ich ueberleg immer noch:
Hat das detailierte Eintragen von landuse bei mehrere Jahre alten Sat-Bildern ueberhaupt Sinn?
Kleinere Waldfleckchen wie an Fluessen ist bei mir schon oft nichtmehr vorhanden oder inzwischen viel groesser.

[Aus versehen als Mail geschickt. hier noch mal fuer alle:]

Auf deiner Userseite (@trisquirrelon) solltest du einige Mapper aus deiner naechsten Umgebung sehen. Die kannst du dann kontaktieren.

Bei allgemeinen Fragen hilft die Mailingliste oder auch gerne die ganze Gemeinschaft die hier die User Diarys verfolgt.

Bei speziellen Fragen ist natuerlich die Mailingliste auch keine schlechte Idee.
Gibt es eine Wiki-Seite zu deinem Problem (die dir aber noch nicht weiterhilft) kannst du auch mal auf deren Diskussionsseite oder in deren History nach Experten schauen.

Geht es um Probleme mit speziellen Tools (wie z.B. JOSM), finden sich auf deren Wiki- oder Webseiten Links zu eigenen Mailinglisten.

Du kannst auch im Editor deiner Wahl mal direkt in die Daten in deiner Umgebung schauen, wer die angelegt hat.

Hier: http://www.itoworld.com/static/osm_mapper.html findest du ein tool, mit dem du eine Umgebung als RSS Feed abonnieren kannst. Dann siehst du wann und wer in deiner Nachbarschaft herumeditiert.

Und vielliecht hilf es auch, auf deiner Profilseite ein paar Worte zu dir zu schreiben. Das hilft bei der Kontaktaufnahme. Z.B. WO du denn herkommst.

Wenn das kein persoenlicher Merkzettel war, dann waere so etwas bei openstreetbugs.org oder bei mapdust.com besser aufgehoben. Dort wird sich fix um die Fehlerbehebung gekuemmert. Hier waere es eher Zufall.

Ups, Entschuldigung. Ich haette auf Deutsch antworten sollen. Gehts auch so oder bedarf es noch einer Uebersetzung?

As more general answer:

There are much more OSM tags and keywords (remember that there is no official list, you are allowed to make up your own) than are recognized by the renderers
(there also is more than one renderer).

Please remember that we don't tag for the renderers (or the routers or whatever) but for the database itself. The renderers will adapt to the keywords as they seem fit.

So if you find a carpenter, just tag it as such. It may not show on the renderers yet, but they will evolve and show it at some point. Also some POIs may be not iteresting to the general public, but just to some special interest group. A bike repair shop may not show on the standard map, but certainly on a cycling map. (The standard map would suffer from massive cluttering if all POIs in the database were shown.)

I know it's quite satisfying to see one selfs edits nicely rendered on the map. Somehow the edit is not *done* until it shows on the website. But please keep mapping those not-yet-drawable POIs as they nevertheless help evolve the map further.

Just a simple use case:

A collected_ways relation includes a number of streets. The type on the collection is "unclassified". The type tag of the ways was removed when creating the collection, just some ways have type "tertiary" which overwrites the "unclassified" tag from the relation.

Fine this far.

No someone, not aware of the relation, edits one of the ways and re-adds the "unclassified" tag.

Still everything is fine.

Now someone has new survey info and wants to change the type of the whole way from 'unclassified' to 'residential'. He wants to use the new relation to do this, as it promises a simpler way of altering all the sub-ways, keeping the few 'tertiary' roads untouched.

But wait, although he changed the type of the relation, some ways kept the 'unclassified' tag. Why? Because they have per-way attributes that now overwrite the relation. he still has to check every single way.

If the answer to this is: Well the editor has to check all the sub-ways and remove those unnecessary tags, than you could also implement the whole edit-helper aspect of the relation into the editor.

Just my 2cents

Yes, I think a non profit organization could do better than 10%.

But in case of flattr (which isn't non-profit) I don't think 10% is very much.
Especially if you keep in mind that they needed to take their starting capital from that and intent to share half of it with community sites (see my first comment.)

I think doing transactions in larger chunks to save costs doesn't work all to well with the intentions behind flattr. You need to do pre-pay, as you have to get over that 'decide how much you want to give' as soon as possible. At the same time you need to keep the entry barrier as low as possible by allowing to start with a minimal amount of money (2 Euro at the moment). Also you need able to pay out the content creators as soon as possible to keep them happy.

Btw: I was wrong on blaming the fees on the bank interfaces. The fee is only for running flattr itself. You need to pay any bank/payment service fees for yourself. :(

As I see it its like pushing the flattr button of flattr itself every tenth time I push it for another site. At least until now thats fine for me. Your milage may wary.

@olejorgenb

Yes, it does. (It's charged on the receiver, not the sender, but that's not really relevant.)

Paypal take 0.35Euro + 1.9% . Thats 36.9% on an 1 Euro donation.
Apple takes 30% off your income.
What's google charging?

I don't think anyone can do a free payment service right now, not even the FSF. As long as it has to interface with the old banking system it will cost money.

@Michael Schulze

Yeah, great. Just received another click from me.

Although I regularly read the newsletters (and like them a lot), the flattr thing went completely past me.

Probably because the flattr button isn't included in the feed-version of the newsletter.

@TomH Thanks for the comment.
Yes, it's an inherent problem to the system that it is people-centric.

But actually there is no technical 'need' to flattr anything each month. If you don't push any button at all, your monthly amount simply goes to a (flattr chosen) charity. I agree that this is no ideal solution though.

As far as I've heard the next iteration of flattr will allow community-sites to hand through flattr clicks to their users. The donated money goes to the individual users (that would be mappers and coders represented with their wiki-sites here at OSM) while the hosting site gets a share of the 10% fee that flattr normally keeps for itself. But that's a thought on the future for now.

It's probably hard for a heterogeneous organization like OSM to decide on anything, especially something as trivial as what things to flattr. But surely there are things that would deserve flattring imho, like all the tool and map style creators who make the maps accessible for more users. Or those users promoting OSM actively and who are talking to the administration offices.
(I'm by the way none of the above expect a mapper.)

Its hard to be 'fair' when giving, but it's easy to be 'nice'. It's a lot about the gesture imho.