Technically, the speed limit, the surface, the road width and state of the shoulder are all present in the database (or at least they can be mapped).

If this is unsuitable or unwanted can only be judged by the user and should be an option at the cycle router.

I personally would say anything with asphalt on it is unsuitable for my bike. I also don't really like going uphill (because I'm lazy). My girlfriend does like smooth road surfaces, but doesn't like to use any road where motor traffic is allowed. My co-worker prefers really smooth, flat surfaces and doesn't want to slow down for 30km/h zones.

Cycling is so diverse, you can't possible press that into an bicycle=unsuitable tag. Just map the physical and legal conditions out there and leave the rest to to be implemented by the route planners.

my two cents,

Chaos

Nothing wrong with that.

Adding entrance nodes is the easier way, because it works every time, and it also adds the additional information of the location of the entry.

Splitting buildings is only a good idea if it *is* a separate building. (Like inner city houses build side-by-side along the street). You can mostly spot that by different kinds of roofs or wall decoration. It's not a good idea if it really is just one building with several entrances (like an apartment block), because the separation would be only *virtual* and doesn't represent any facts about the real world.

There is an ongoing discussion about this on the german mailing list, but it seems to not matter if you tag the entrance (or POI) node(s) or the building itself with the address if there is only one. Just don't tag the same address multiple times (like with multiple POIs inside the same building). Tag either just the building or use a relation to group them all together.

That's all just my opinion of course. At the end there is no *right* way to do things here.

Chaos99

@Richard I see your point in not wanting to write that on every picture page. Do you see my point in not wanting to hunt that info down on your profile page when I'm interested in a picture? It surely depends on your jurisdiction, but at least I'm forced to attribute and state the license directly where I use the picture. Even writing it just at the end of the document may be not allowed. I don't want to do this either, but I just have to. Also there are those pictures edited by several users .... Or pictures that are clearly not produced by the user who uploaded it ....

But actually, your PD case is a bit different: As I have understood, you license your work as PD, then openstreetmap.org immediately re-license it as CC-BY-SA without attributing you. So you are out of the equation. When I want to use your picture, I have to attribute osm, not you. But I have to know that. Unfortunately there is no difference on the image pages between content re-licensed by osm and content licensed by their original owners.

@!i! Oh no, we don't even have them for the press images?

@AndrewBuck Thanks for the link!

I'm fine with public domain. My point was that they have to *declare* it. Most pictures miss license information altogether.

Every wiki page declares its content to be CC-BY-SA 2.0 (see the page footer). So things without a specific license automatically become CC-BY-SA, attributed just to openstreetmap.org. But of course everybody knows that this is not true for every picture. (All those screenshots of external websites for instance.)

You might get away with fair use when using the picture in the wiki. But you also have to *declare* that. Just omitting the license brings us back to the default CC-BY-SA, which isn't right.

Very interesting. Could you also verify that the accuracy is indeed increased when choosing 0.00km instead of 0.01km?

Thanks to all of you for your recommendations. I will work those into my talk.

Seems that Android is the OS of choice for most mappers. Well, can't say I'm surprised.
But is there anyone with knowledge about iOS apps?

Leider ist mir keine Ein-Klick-Methode bekannt.

Du kannst entweder die Sache erst einmal nur in openstreetbugs markieren, das ist wenig Aufwand, bringt aber auch nicht sofort etwas.

Oder du traegst selbst die Sperrung ein, und zwar mit den ueblichen Tags. Also ganz normal als Einbahn, als access=no oder mit Abbiegebeschraenkungen. Das ist natuerlich aufwaendig.

Hilfreich waere es, wenn du irgendwo (openstreetbugs, osm.wiki/Tag:note=) dokumentierst, dass das temporaere Aenderungen sind. Oder, noch besser, es dir zur persoenlichen Aufgabe machst genau diese Aenderung auch wieder zurueckzunehmen, wenn die Baustelle wieder verschwunden ist.

So habe ich das zumindest bisher gehandhabt.

There are plugins that do this, but not for OSM (or JOSM).
I know of a (commercial) plugin for Google SketchUp (http://www.brainstormllc.com/) which extracts building dimensions from photos.
If you match points manually, SketchUp can do the same without a plugin.

But this will produce 3D buildings. I don't know of any tool that only extracts heights, sorry.

There is a Microsoft project (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynth) (available as a web service) which combines photos of different view angles into a point cloud. Also technically the same as what you ask for, but of no use for OSM, sorry.

What about making the current tile policy available via an API call? So any app can ask how much tiles and at what rate it is allowed to load. This gives OSM the possibility for fine grain control, even in real time, should the servers face a hard limit.

Any good behaving app will listen to those constraints, any apps who don't are really worth blocking.

Just remember: its not 'MOBAC' creating this load, and it's not 'MOBAC users', it's 'OSM users, who come via MOBAC'. We can't give more than we have, but they are just the same as the 'website users'.

Can't find anything wrong about the '4Euro App'. It clearly identifies itself with a valid User-agent string, it has a download limit in place, it offers alternate servers and the developer even donates large amounts to OSM. Also, as this doesn't get mentioned here, there is a free version of the app. You don't pay for the access to OSM data, that's all the same in the free version.

Seems like nobody talks to the author, and when, not in a very nice tone.
He actually is very cooperative. Why not find a solution together, instead of arguing and blocking without a notice to the dev?

@Richard I never said continuing as it is now is an option. I just said that banning external apps is none either.

That's more in the spirit: "First version of #Ubuntu #OpenStreetMap tile-server packages available! (German-HowTo with 5 steps) http://bit.ly/nD9xae - thx Kai!" just tweeted by Pascal Neis

And even if you make it sound as it is an impossible option: Yes, setting up my own tile server is what I intend to do, once there are the tools for it and I'm no longer too stupid to use them. You are right that I won't be able to support a lot of other users, but every one counts, doesn't it?

'[M]aintaining OSM for editors like you or I' is a concept that baffles me. OSM is for the editors? I always thought it's for the users?

Has anyone tried to contact the App developers yet? I know one 4Euro Android app. I'll ask what the developer has to say about it. I'll report back.

Well, from a conceptual viewpoint I would say, telling those developers to stop using the map is a very wrong thing. And not only because we can't enforce this properly.

Providing a usable map is our main goal. Providing the map data in ways not possible with i.e. Google maps is on of our key features. It's what draws people to OSM, it's what fuels the steady stream of developers using OSM. It's just great. If I weren't able to actually use the map I help to create, I would surely stop contributing to it too. And telling OSM user to go and harass app developers will surely not do us a favor. It's the apps the non-mappers see the map through. They are kind of our window to the world. (Nobody with a mobile phone will ever use the websites slippy map.)

Of course we have to find technical solutions to the problem at hand. But saying 'No' isn't a solution. Making it easier to do live rendering would be a big step. (I personally tried to do this for an own application, but didn't succeeded with the wiki alone.)

Sadly it's out of the question for mobile applications. Spreading those requests on multiple services (Cloudmade) could also be done on server-side.
(Or at least providing a API call with a list of alternatives and the server with the least load.)

Also, as was stated before, most of the pressure comes from mass downloads, like creating offline tile maps of entire regions. Again a feature I won't want to miss. What about creating a service to deliver those big chunks on request with a scheduled renderer/packager? So tools don't have to request tile after tile from the live map, but could request a bounding box and get the tile data as a big package after some minutes?

So, der Thueringer Stammtisch (den ich fuer den Erfurter hielt) ist kontaktiert. Mal sehen was was daraus wird.

Ok, da muss ich erstmal schauen, ob Jena einen eigenen Stammtisch hat. Ich kenne nur (fluechtig) die Erfurter User. Mal schauen was sich ergibt. Danke fuer den Link.

So it's more of a 'search-and-replace' function for JOSM? Ok, then I see where you want to go. Of course experienced users could do with regEx, but for the novice mapper a gui could be helpful.

I haven't used them, but aren't there already plugins/functions to do, lets say, add a source tag to all ways which are also tagged as building=yes? I remember reading such things on the JOSM mailing list ...

Hi, bin Geocacher und OSMler aus Erfurt, was annehmbar nah bei Jena liegt. Nein, Jena liegt natuerlich bei Erfurt. Ach egal.

Ich bin eigentlich Einzelmapper und nicht organisatorisch aktive (also auch nicht beim Erfurter Stammtisch) wuerde also anderen durchaus den Vortritt ueberlassen. Wenn sich aber keiner findet wuerde ich durchaus den Jenaer Cachern mal was von OSM erzaehlen, ehe da das Interesse wieder abflacht.

Wie,wo und mit wem kann man denn da Kontakt aufnehmen?

Schoenen Gruss...

Hi,

I just can't see how your tool will know what is the right name for a street. At least here (Germany) we tag by the rule 'What it says on the street sign', which may be any form of abbriviated, non-abbriviated or even mixed forms of street names. So if a street is called Willi-Brand-Str. this may as well be the official name. Expanding this to Willi-Brand-Strasse would be wrong. To know what's right you either need to look at the street sign or compare to some kind of official import data.

I do see a use for the tool with the phone number as target. This is a pure formating issue without impact on content. But those transformations are already done by bots, not be JOSM plugins. So all tags get changed, not just the ones generated by JOSM.

Just my two cents....

Hi again,

you see: the OSM users are very passionate about this. But don't let that scare you off. Thanks for making an effort to improve the map anyhow. Just stick to legal sources or, even better, do your own mapping with your GPS outside.

Hello TrippleBee,

no, unfortunatley you are not allowed to use google maps or other sources for your mapping.
We need to use sources that are compatible with the open source license OSM uses, so we can create a truly 'free' map. (That is, not just one that can be used free of charge, but one that is not bound by any ones ownership rights.)

Google owns its map data and satellite images, so we are not allowed to use it.

Also, this question is answered in the legal FAQ at osm.wiki/Legal_FAQ#Can_I_trace_data_from_Google_Maps.2FVirtual_Earth.2FOrdnance_Survey.2F....3F
you also will find a link to a list of allowed sources there.

Please don't use illegal sources like google or other map services to generate new map data for OSM. Doing this makes OSM vulnerable to all kind of legal problems.