OpenStreetMap
What if the OBDL, but explicitly inclusive and antifascist?
Posted by Baloo Uriza on 31 May 2025 in English.OBDL but governments like Hungary (homophobia), Isreal (genocide), groups like the Republican Party (every stripe of bigotry imaginable) and companies like Tesla (same) are blanket excluded from using, copying, redistributing or accessing OSM data in any way, shape or form?
Discussion
Comment from SomeoneElse on 31 May 2025 at 20:00
It’d be a licence, but not an open one.
Json has such a clause and it isn’t considered an open licence.
Who gets to decide what is “good” and what “not good”? You? Me? Santa?
Comment from SimonPoole on 1 June 2025 at 08:44
There’s not only the issues SomeoneElse points out, there are further roughly 10 million contracts the OSMF has entered in that require the OSM distribution licence to comply with the open definition.
There is no realistic way to change that and use a non-open licence.
Comment from Baloo Uriza on 1 June 2025 at 14:48
I don’t see explicit antifascism and antibigotry as being incompatible with the open definition, but an intrinsic component.
Comment from KhalidKashmiri on 1 June 2025 at 18:18
So… In your opinion, inclusiveness means excluding the views of about 90% of people?
Comment from Baloo Uriza on 1 June 2025 at 18:21
I think you improperly assume most people are bigots to come up with 90% on that one.
Comment from KhalidKashmiri on 1 June 2025 at 19:14
If you look at any sort of data regarding LGBTQ+ acceptance you’ll see that anywhere but the western world the acceptance rate ranges between 0% and 10%. Perhaps you are the one who meets the definition of a bigot?
Comment from Baloo Uriza on 1 June 2025 at 19:26
Homophobia is bigotry.
Comment from KhalidKashmiri on 1 June 2025 at 19:49
Your intention to ban the Hungarian government and thus the Hungarian nation because it doesn’t pass certain laws you’d want it to is bigotry to a much greater extent. More exclusion won’t mean more inclusion.
Comment from Baloo Uriza on 1 June 2025 at 19:51
You’re trying to excuse a genocide.
Comment from KhalidKashmiri on 1 June 2025 at 20:32
However you call it don’t consider me as one of the ‘bigots’ you try to exclude. I only wanted to explain to you why your idea is completely useless and does more harm than good. You have not countered any of my arguments, yet you had two opportunities already. First, you called homophobia bigotry yet i never said it wasn’t, then you accused me of excusing genocide, even though I didn’t even try to justify anything - I never stated that the actions of the Hungarian government are good or bad, I simply said that your intentions fulfill the definition of bigotry even more than the ones you accuse of it. What is the point of replying to my messages if you want to fight my genocide denial, a baseless accusation and a false part of my personality that you came up with?
Comment from kucai on 2 June 2025 at 11:27
Popcorn time.
Comment from impiaaa on 2 June 2025 at 20:12
It’s a noble proposal. There are a few proposed “ethical” software licenses, for example the Hippocratic License and the Non-Violent Public License. Unfortunately, as you’ve already seen, people take issue with calling something “open” that restricts who can use it—this is one reason why I repudiate the Free Software Foundation, for instance. So, one issue with applying this to an open data project like OSM is that you’d have to write the license, or modify one—the NVPL apparently supports creative works, but idk if that includes databases; and the others are just for software. The other issue is convincing people to change. The ODbL relicense was already a huge undertaking, and people did leave because of it. You could of course create your own, alternative project, but then you’d have to convince people to use your alternative. Open data projects benefit from centralization.
Comment from Baloo Uriza on 2 June 2025 at 21:10
Khalid, the fact you entered this thread with a post that tries to promote homophobia as a valid viewpoint, then doubled down on it by trying to white knight Hungary’s homophobia as valid, really only leaves room for me to question if you’re even engaging with this subject in good faith.
Comment from KhalidKashmiri on 2 June 2025 at 21:44
I never commented on homophobia. Do you mean the part where I was against the exclusion of the majority of people? I have personally never witnessed homophobia on OSM and I’m sure it’s prohibited.
Comment from Baloo Uriza on 2 June 2025 at 22:44
You’d be correct on that, however, again, the way you phrased it suggests that 90% of people are homophobic, therefore it’s OK. Apologies if that’s not what you intended.
Comment from KhalidKashmiri on 2 June 2025 at 23:53
Depends on how you define ‘OK’. Indeed I find it OK that everyone has access to OSM, not just a small part of humanity. Might as well ban every country that allows non-renewable energy as it causes a climatic genocide (yep, that’s you and your country). The thing is, perhaps you should consider that not only many Hungarians or Israelis aren’t bigots, but also that nobody is a saint. Well, maybe except for the Jains.
Comment from Baloo Uriza on 3 June 2025 at 00:01
The country’s government and the people as a whole are unrelated for the purposes of this discussion.
Comment from KhalidKashmiri on 3 June 2025 at 00:07
The people rely on the government.
Comment from Wynndale on 8 June 2025 at 08:33
Much as you might want to stick it to Trump, Orban or Netanyahu we have a map of the whole world here and should be doing our best to deliver it. The same goes for cancelling Volodymyr Zelensky, William Rufo, Friedrich Merz, Vladimir Putin, Emmanuel Macron, Mark Carney, Paul Biya, Bongbong Marcos or Keir Starmer. If anyone ever targets OSM directly we should do something that concentrates on keeping our database uncompromised.
Someone above talked about the Free Software Foundation. Even though the restrictions in the GPL have always been more focused than this omnicause-powered proposal the FSF got into a deep mess when they revised the GPL2 into the GPL3.