Hey there! I did some work to the SkyTrain and concur with your conclusion that it's a monorail, however the wiki is very vague on this topic (and monorail support is quite crap across most data consumers) so I don't think it's good to get into an edit war at this time. But maybe we can create more Wiki clarity and advocate for more data consumer support, since getting around airports and dense tourist areas is always confusing!

Discussion here: changeset/123988282

Hi Dr. Kludge! I'm updating a few US airport transit systems and added the 24th St and Rental Car stations to the SkyTrain, however in this commit I see we're going back and forth about the definition of tram vs monorail.

As we so often find in OSM, the tag name that some Europeans came up with has very different meanings and implications from the word's common meaning in American English.

When OSM says monorail, they mean a small system that's typically elevated, whether or not the carriages actually hang onto a single rail or not, like the Miami Metromover (which is a people mover nearly identical to the SkyTrain).

When OSM says tram, they mean a really small street-running light rail, what we would call a streetcar or trolley. The fact that we happen to call airport peoplemovers and aerial gondolas "trams" thus making for a bunch of confusion doesn't change how the OSM database and data consumers will treat the public transit system we document: for example, a tram (streetcar) is more likely to be a citywide system that interfaces with streets and has municipal fare collection and timetables, whereas a monorail (people mover) is more likely to be a free-of-charge way of accessing a district or infrastructure especially over dense or varied terrain, without published timetables or branching routes.

Just another one of those Britishisms we have to shoehorn into our system, like primary/tertiary/trunk roads and 0-based building levels, I guess.

I'm not going to undo your changes since I know how much of a pain it is to get OSM public transit working at all (I just edited Orlando's people movers a few dozen times and OsmAnd is still buggy) but please just be aware that the correct tagging for the Skytrain will almost certainly end up being monorail and not tram. This will allow for future improvements such as apps not making transit assumptions that are invalid for people movers. (I'd love for "walking directions" to just automatically include hopping on an airport peoplemover, for example, rather than having to get routed out to a main road and then switch over to "public transit" mode to "board a train" that arrives every 90 seconds on nonsensically-alternating platforms, etc etc.)

Here's the best reference I was able to find breaking out the differences: osm.wiki/Railways#Types_of_railway_line

If you want to see what's globally tagged as what, here's some handy overpass queries:

https://overpass-turbo.eu/?template=key-value&key=route&value=monorail

https://overpass-turbo.eu/?template=key-value&key=route&value=tram

Cheers and thanks for all your work making OSM and Phoenix better!

Welcome, and thank you for contributing to OSM!
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Published using OSMCha: https://osmcha.org/changesets/130364901

Thanks for your contributions! If you'd like to make this proper, you could also tag this building with shop=florist (or using the Florist preset in iD) so that it's considered a place to buy flowers not just a named building.

Hi Isaac and thanks for contributing to OpenStreetMap! Please remember to make all changes in a changeset in a small area before editing another area. That way a whole continent of people aren't notified of your change, and also tools like OsmCha and Achavi are able to review your changes without excessive lag.

Hi thanks for your contributions! Some of the house shapes seem a little lopsided, please consider using the Square Corners function in your editor to help draw regularly shaped buildings. You might also like to use RapiD Editor (MapWithAI) which uses AI to quickly detect and map buildings.

Thanks again!
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Published using OSMCha: https://osmcha.org/changesets/129628820

Welcome to OSM in Oregon, thank you for your contributions!

ah thanks somehow i was right there and still typo'd
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Published using OSMCha: https://osmcha.org/changesets/128861323

The buildings in the middle of the SSHS track/field no longer seem to be there, were they temporary?

Hi there, you added the driveway way/723961040 however it's drawn as a left-hand drive which is opposite of how it usually is in America. Can you check and confirm and update note/3024407 with your findings? Thanks! #amap

Gotcha, I've been so used to adding kerb information to crosswalk ways, I'm wondering how many elements/tags will end up being duplicated at each intersection. I'll play with this style but as it is it's so easy to tag the 4 crossing nodes, 4 crosswalk ways, and now 8 kerb nodes, plus all the short sidewalk segments, all with mildly duplicated info... I'll have to find a balance

Hi there, is it really standardized to create nodes in the middle of crosswalks for kerbs as with node 8964643061? I've more often seen this information on the crossing node or the crosswalk way.

Hey there! I'm interested in completing this data to give more coverage in the area, do you still have the original building and address info handy?

Oh nice lol I think I probably talked to the same people as you. I actually called WW and then Pomeroy, and there's a Heritage/archaeologist guy at Pomeroy who said he'll check with someone who handles naming. At the very least we want accurate names for things as well, or perhaps if it's a dispersed camping opportunity, like we'd want to have the correct "Skyline Springs Campground" road name or whatever it is, etc.

Thanks for all your work with this!

Yeah I was trying to figure out which area of their website referenced this campground but couldn't make heads or tails of it, I figured since you created it you might have a slightly better clue than me https://www.fs.usda.gov/activity/umatilla/recreation/camping-cabins/?recid=56399&actid=29

Hi there! The campsite at node/5796588469 seems to be named after a spring whose name has changed. Do you know who's in charge of naming the campsite to see if it's changed as well?

Hey there thanks for this contribution however there was already a node for this feature when you added the line (10017047729), and it seems like a node (coordinates sourced from USGS) may be more appropriate than a line (topo maps suggest the basin is not linear, and doesn't really extend north-south in this area.)

Thanks for your fixes! I've made some further tweaks in changeset/126713932. I like using osmcha to view changes, it might be useful for you: https://osmcha.org/changesets/126713932/

I've left judgment calls like way/1098323697 and 828423084 as you mapped them just to not impose my viewpoint on everything, but I would personally map them as service roads as well. (Yes they're technically only accessed for parking in a lot, but it'd be real easy for them to be used just to get in and out of the business/lot.) As you can see I've modified ways 1098323700 and 1098323695: it's going to be hard to get in/out/around these businesses/lots without using those routes; many "parking aisles" serve a dual purpose of getting people in/out/around the lot and we call those service roads in OSM's funky syntax. way/852641139 hardly has any parking spaces, it's very much used for getting to/from the business. way/181513335 is only really a driveway for the parts that loop around the backside, but even then it's totally fine to leave it as a service road. Don't be afraid of just leaving every unnamed place where cars go as service roads, there's nothing wrong with that.

We don't really need to subdivide sections of asphalt down to the foot as to what's what: the main goal here is to allow maps to look good (renderers can choose which parts to show in order to balance visual clutter) and to route GPS apps appropriately (some basic apps may choose to ignore parking aisle routing entirely, or at least reduce their routing priority, to produce more sane routing more quickly.)

Here's the wiki page on parking aisles for your reference. Again don't worry, I redid parking lots about a dozen times before I figured out what the standard was. service=parking_aisle#Disambiguation

Hey there thanks for your contributions! FYI parking aisles are confusing tags. They should only be used for the minor gridlike rows of parking spots in a large lot and not for the main ways in/out/around the lot. Basically you should be able to get to the front door of where you need to go using only service roads.
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Published using OSMCha: https://osmcha.org/changesets/126704153

The shortest answer to your question, as far as I know, is that you should probably query for natural=coastline and then join the coastlines together (maybe with a few extra fake lines added to your renderer afterwards just to make it work) to create oceanic polygons.

Separately, the waterway to the West is a relation of coastlines: relation/2389633 if we really wanted to make areas for the East River, Bowery Bay, etc, we can do so by adding the coastlines to a new relation with a couple inserted lines here and there to separate them out and close them, but it's probably not necessary.

We have a rule, don't tag for the renderer: if the map objects represent reality then the renderer should generally figure out how to process/display that. (We can't reasonably create a relation of every single coastline to form an ocean, and there is some OSM consensus about where to distinguish the mouth of a river versus the bays and ocean it goes into.)

See here for more: osm.wiki/Coastline