Hey there atomic,

Can you explain what is going on with the green at way/1279807753 ? It is overlapping a pond that shows up in several different aerial imagery, none of which I have access to that shows a green is there.

Your green also overlaps with a bunker, which shouldn't happen. Something is either a green or a bunker, it can't be both. Therefore, the area of those shouldn't overlap.

But the bigger question is why the green is overlapping the pond. If you have accurate imagery that we don't, please make sure the pond gets updated as well as the green/bunker overlap.

Thanks

Thanks for your contributions Mark.

In the future, please make sure the greens and fairways don't intersect each other. I realize you were just adding greens and the fairways were already poorly drawn in, but it sets off Q/A checks when they overlap. Thanks.

I understand your frustration Russ. But lashing out and name calling won't be tolerated in the community and can result in your account being banned. I want to work with mappers to make sure quality updates are being made to the map, and what I saw here was not quality. I've been spending the last 3 years cleaning up tens of thousands of golf course features and what often happens is someone X amount of work means 2X amount of cleanup.

You say I didn't look at imagery, but that isn't true. If your changeset is accurate, you used Bing imagery, as did I. If you have imagery that is different I'd love to see it. But with that being said, no imagery exists that would justify a change like this: https://imgur.com/a/0zkjyBx

Fairways should never cross over greens like that. If it was a work-in-progress, you shouldn't be uploading broken geometry like that. There were other problems with your changes as well, but this stood out as particularly egregious.

And then you replace some misclassified things like a cartpath, but instead of just classifying it correctly, you erase it and draw in a sloppy replacement (way/1449476022) with less resolution that improperly doubles back on itself at the north end.

I'm here to help you improve, but I'm not here if you continue to use abusive language. Thanks for attention to this matter.

The Belle Meade changes have been reverted as they violate some very basic principals of golf course mapping. First and foremost, the intersection of golf course areas (fairways, greens, bunkers, tees, roughs, etc). Secondarily, you are deleting someone's work and recreating it instead of modifying existing objects. This obfuscates the history and should be avoided whenever possible. Please read up on the golf_course wiki before proceeding with any golf course mapping. There's a lot of good information there and we're happy to help you improve your mapping. Thanks.

RE: node/9105411079

Please be careful to include ALL nodes along a boundary in your fairway. That particular node was missed and that sets of an automated error check that looks for bunkers that overlap fairways (any golf course areas for that matter.)

Thanks

hello gpneal,

Please make sure the areas on a golf course don't intersect each other. Like on the first hole, your fairway was intersecting the green. Also, it's best to modify existing areas instead of deleting them and drawing them from scratch. You lose valuable history when you delete work. thanks.

FYI, the correct tag when numbering holes (fairways, greens, etc) is "ref", not "hole". I've fixed up this batch but thought you should know for future edits.

You're probably referring to an earlier change in the history than my change. You might want to view the object in question's history and find someone else. I only touch the "website" tag. I have no hand in touching the "shop" tag.

Oops, reused wrong changeset description. This was a revert on a bad change that violated basic golf course etiquette (fairways crossing over greens)

RE: way/1445319095

When drawing golf course areas (i.e. greens, fairways, bunkers, tees, etc.), please be aware that the ways (lines) used to outline those areas must not cross over each other. Fairway outlines shouldn't cross over greens or bunkers or other fairways for example. Take a look at osm.wiki/File:Golf.png for an example of the "Wrong" way to map a fairway and a green along with the right way. There are some cases where a fringe exists around a green and you should draw the fairway outline completely around a green, leaving room for the fringe. Other times, the fairway and green butt up against each other. In that case the fairway and green should share the same nodes at the boundary between the two, and every node at the boundary needs to be shared leaving no gaps. When drawing these shared nodes, editors like iD (built into openstreetmap.org) will "snap" to an existing node if you get close enough. If you have any questions about golf course mapping, feel free to reach out. Thanks.

Thanks for creating these greens, but please make sure your greens don't intersect with other existing (or created) golf areas like fairways. If you need to fix someone else's work, please do so that it doesn't create an inconsistency (error) in the map. Thanks.

Hey there ICT,

Just wanted to let you know that golf holes have a direction to them and go from the tee to the green. I've gone ahead and fixed them on this course but wanted you to know for future mapping. Thanks.

Hi Jaker, I just wanted to let you know I made a couple of small changes to your golf course mapping. The start of the golf=hole line you drew in a couple of places was labelled as a golf=tee. But the area around that was already marked as a tee, which is redundant. So I removed the tag on the node itself. Just thought you'd want to know.

RE: way/1443109313

There are a couple problems with this "rough" area. The first is that it crosses over cart paths. It should be kept to the grass, so should be split into two whenever a path intersects the rough. The second problem is that it intersects with a bunker. Areas like fairways, roughs, greens, bunkers, tees, etc should never intersect each other.

If you could go back in and fix this, I would appreciate it. Thanks.

You're the best! Thanks.

Hey wadenick, looks like you are doing a lot of great work. However, I did come across this one bunker (way/1435238413) that seems to have been ignored as you were drawing the fairway and crossed over it. Seeing how all of the other bunkers here are correct, I'm guessing this was just a mistake.

Thanks for getting back to me Chris. Much appreciated. You are correct in saying that putting fairway/green pairs into a multipolygon relation "isn't mandatory". However, taking an existing pair that is in a relation and breaking that relation is frowned upon.

As for getting the author to make a change, that would be fantastic. If you are talking about "Chad's Tool", there already exists a fix that just hasn't been incorporated yet. It's been out there for at least 6 months. Any pressure you can put on the author would be appreciated. If you are technical, I'm guessing you could incorporate that fix in your own fork of the tool and have a private working version. If that is the tool you're talking about and you need more info, let me know.

Hey Chris. What you've done here with "removing inner/outer definitions" is incorrect. A fairway that surrounds a green is defined with a multipolygon with the fairway as the outer and a green as the inner. Please stop making changes to relations unless you fully understand how they are used. Thanks.

Holes shouldn't have "names" typically. There are rare exceptions, but the hole is not named "1". It has a reference number of "1" and that's how you know which hole it is. Please don't add names in the future. Thanks.

You need to work with the author of your tool to implement a fix on their side. OSM has strict, well documented, standards on how to map everything from roads to golf courses to zoos. This isn't an OSM problem, it's a golf simulator problem.

This is a long standing bug that they are aware of. There is even a fix that has been proposed that hasn't been integrated yet. See https://github.com/chadrockey/TGC-Designer-Tools/pull/143. Maybe you could add your voice to the pull request asking it to be incorporated. If you're technical enough, you could pull it yourself into a private version of the tool and run your own fixed version.

Breaking golf courses in OSM and causing others to have to clean up after you will likely result in a ban. And honestly, none of us want to see that happen. Thanks.