Hm, very strange.

It sounds like somehow you have managed to create a way with 0 nodes, which the server won't accept. If you can find a way to reproduce this (i.e. a series of steps that always lead to that error) then let us know and we can fix it.

Why not? What happens when you try to upload?

"check that all the ways are nicely connected and in the right order"

Don't be silly. Any programmer worth their salt can sort route relations into the right order. Mappers are our most valuable commodity; we shoudn't impose additional burdens on them to help lazy programmers. Route relations are not required to be ordered and nor should they be.

I've fixed the way-deleting bug but it needs a little API change, and we just need Matt to consent to Tom committing my patch for that. ;)

We discovered a 'blocker'-level bug the other day which is probably what's causing stuff to be lost in P2. Basically, it happens if you delete a way where some of the nodes are off-screen, but are also shared by other ways. Unfortunately fixing this will require a minor change to the server API - otherwise I'd have committed a fix already - but hopefully we'll be able to get it sorted in the very near future.

You should be able to hide the stuff to the left of Potlatch - press 'M' (for maximise) after you've started editing. :)

Every successful save will go into the database. You can have several saves within one changeset, so even if the last one fails, earlier ones will still be fine.

"What do all OSM editors have in common?"

Let me guess - you haven't contributed any code to any of them?

Sorry, cheap shot. But we're volunteers like you and doing the best we can - honest. If you look at the amount of changes (read: improvements) made to Potlatch 2 alone recently, it's pretty staggering: http://trac.openstreetmap.org/log/applications/editors/potlatch2 . 100 changes in under a fortnight. From what I see of the logs, the JOSM and Merkaartor codebases are just as active. It's not enough - we could do with more developers, but OSM has had a chronic shortage of developers since day one. Potlatch 1 was largely a single-person effort. With P2 we're up to three or four core developers, which is a huge improvement (and unlike me, the other two or three are proper programmers ;) ), but still pretty minuscule.

With upload errors - we're looking at it but Flash (or strictly speaking the NSAPI plugin architecture) doesn't make it easy for us; if there's an error, there is no way for Potlatch 2 to find out what it was. Which sucks astronomically. There are almost certainly ways round it but it's not the sort of thing where we can commit a three-line, ten-minute code change to fix it, believe me.

If you find a bug and can find a way to reproduce it consistently, please post it on osm.wiki/Potlatch_2/Bugs .

CT 1.2 revised is compatible with the OS OpenData licence. It will not get wiped.

"the Flash API", I mean, not "the same Flash API". (JOSM uses the JavaScript API.)

JOSM and Potlatch do not use the same Yahoo API. Potlatch is written in Flash therefore uses the same Flash API. There is AFAIK no easy way to change this in JOSM. There is also no reason to change it, as we'll have Bing imagery in a week or two which is better resolution than Yahoo's imagery anyway.

You quoted John Whelan's mail which was talking about the "should we go ahead with this?" vote put to OSMF members (http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2009-December/000751.html), and equated it with the number of mappers who have signed up to ODbL+CT - entirely different.

As for the "or" point, do you think the same when CC-BY-SA says "You must include a copy of, or the Uniform Resource Identifier for, this License"? That the "or" will be decided by courts and lawyers, and they might force you to include the whole licence rather than the URL?

Er, 55 a day, not 130 in 12 weeks. http://neis-one.org/2010/11/23/short-update/

About as close to the truth as your assertion that people creating an .img Garmin map would have to host the entire planet file, which can be trivially disproved by actually reading ODbL. You're not very good with the whole "facts" thing, are you?

Please don't use relations for this. It almost killed the server yesterday morning when someone did that for Russian coverage and lots of people started downloading it. Please just document it on the wiki like everyone else does.

Brilliant - have often walked through Brecon (we go on holiday to Talybont regularly) and figured it ought to be mapped properly but not really been able to convince SWMBO that we should spend some hours of our holiday doing it. :) Look forward to seeing the result.

> The more text a licence have the more shitty it is.

Hope to see you campaigning for OSM to switch to the WTFPL then.

Please do not trace from Bing yet. We don't know whether we have access to all the imagery. We don't know whether we need to display any attribution in the editor. We don't know whether we're allowed raw tile access or have to use an API. We don't know whether we're required to add a source= tag and if so, what. Please just wait a few days while Bing's lawyers explain what's required.

Peut-etre nous pouvons creer une version «offline» de Potlatch 2 (avec Adobe AIR) qui pourrait utiliser les images SPOT. C'est dommage qu'on doit utiliser JOSM. ;)

Wikimapia shows why this sort of thing should be treated with great caution. Users can come to value their own "score" over and above the real aim, of making a better map. They then carry out edits that improve their score but don't improve the map (in fact, often worsen it). In OSM, this might be tracing areas which they've never visited and will never do so, or making questionable bulk changes.

We want to encourage people to get out there and map. We don't want to encourage people to change for the sake of change.

So if such a system were implemented, I'd very strongly argue that points should only be earned for areas where the user had uploaded GPS tracks. Such a system would reward surveying effort, and not armchair mapping.

You should post this to the international mailing lists, too.

Sure you can export tracks from an eTrex H. You just need the eTrex-to-serial lead (available cheap on eBay) and then, possibly, a serial to USB converter. gpsbabel will do everything you need at the client end.