I tried to view Bing maps, but was told that my computer was incompatible. It would seem that Microsoft is only interested in people who can install their Silverlight plugin.
@Paul: I don't see a problem here, care to elaborate? They are bringing OSM to a lot more users, and do it without putting an extra load on OSM infrastructure.
@lyx: The problem is this is Microsoft's classic "embrace and extend" tactic. They're using us as a publicity stunt without giving anything back to the community, essentially.
Nobody forces you to use Bing maps if you don't want to use Silverlight. However, the 100s of Million of users who do use Microsoft Products may on the otherhand find it useful and a few of them probably will start contributing to OSM which can potentially be a huge increase for OSM. So I think it is great to see Bing Maps probing and trialing out OSM.
Of cause, I would have also preferd if it didn't use Silverlight, so that I as a Linux user, or for that matter on a public Windows Computer, could try it out. And do wonder why they are doing it, given that all other companies have managed to create a javascript map library without problems. But in the end due to the Share-A-Like nature of the License, Microsoft can't embrace and _extend_ OSM without giving back.
That hasn't stopped Microsoft from violating open source licenses in the past; they have violated the GPL, I don't see any reason why they wouldn't violate our license. I think they're kidding themselves if they think peer approval of their projct is going to be automatic or easy.
Some folks from Microsoft participated in a couple of License Working Group telephone calls earlier this year. They had some specific questions about using OpenStreetMap and the licenses. You can find their questions on the wiki under the community guidelines under trivial transformations, metadata layers and indexing.
I'd like to see more feedback and participation from the community on all of the community guidelines.
Do Microsoft have a history of aggression towards Free Software, the GPL, Open Source, Open Standards, small business, etc? Yes. Does Microsoft spread FUD regarding software patents? Yes.
Is past behaviour an indication of future behaviour? It can be.
But what about welcoming new participants to OpenStreetMap? OpenStreetMap even has open in the name. The best open projects do not discriminate based on field of endeavour or use. We expect all OSM participants to abide by the OSM licenses. And we even presume good faith when contacting mappers who make edits we don't understand.
Is Microsoft consuming and displaying OSM data? Yes. Are they doing this for their own purposes? Yes.
Doesn't that describe the actions of every consumer of OSM data? Yes.
Is Microsoft fulfilling their obligations under the OpenStreetMap license? If so, what more permission do they need?
Awareness is good. Discrimination is bad. We each have to find our own balance between awareness and um, defensive preconceptions.
I'm not sure any such balance needs to be found with Microsoft, given that they've only been going down the destructive path I've described for 35 years. "He's not a bad guy, he's stopped raping people. Never mind he's spent the better part of four decades forcibly penetrating people, that's no indication that he's going to keep doing that!"
I think its a good thing, gets osm into more people view, and it does says its OSM map not bings, so most people will know that bing is only using that data from an open source project.
> They're using us as a publicity stunt without giving anything back to the community, essentially.
And it is bad because...
a) no one should mention they're using OSM
b) using OSM without giving back to the community is prohibited
c) Microsoft is evil (what year is it outside?)
I too, don't see how this is bad news. Except for one thing: from now on lazy, stupid journalists will stop calling it "CloudMade's OpenStreetMap" and start calling it "Microsoft's OpenStreetMap" :)
OpenStreetMap
Discussion
Comment from imroy on 3 August 2010 at 05:52
I tried to view Bing maps, but was told that my computer was incompatible. It would seem that Microsoft is only interested in people who can install their Silverlight plugin.
Fuck you, Microsoft.
Comment from c2r on 3 August 2010 at 07:25
Of course, using free OS maps as layers to derive OSM from is completely different (o;
Comment from lyx on 3 August 2010 at 07:38
@Paul: I don't see a problem here, care to elaborate? They are bringing OSM to a lot more users, and do it without putting an extra load on OSM infrastructure.
Comment from Baloo Uriza on 3 August 2010 at 07:43
@lyx: The problem is this is Microsoft's classic "embrace and extend" tactic. They're using us as a publicity stunt without giving anything back to the community, essentially.
Comment from amm on 3 August 2010 at 08:09
Nobody forces you to use Bing maps if you don't want to use Silverlight. However, the 100s of Million of users who do use Microsoft Products may on the otherhand find it useful and a few of them probably will start contributing to OSM which can potentially be a huge increase for OSM. So I think it is great to see Bing Maps probing and trialing out OSM.
Of cause, I would have also preferd if it didn't use Silverlight, so that I as a Linux user, or for that matter on a public Windows Computer, could try it out. And do wonder why they are doing it, given that all other companies have managed to create a javascript map library without problems. But in the end due to the Share-A-Like nature of the License, Microsoft can't embrace and _extend_ OSM without giving back.
Comment from Baloo Uriza on 3 August 2010 at 08:17
That hasn't stopped Microsoft from violating open source licenses in the past; they have violated the GPL, I don't see any reason why they wouldn't violate our license. I think they're kidding themselves if they think peer approval of their projct is going to be automatic or easy.
Comment from rw__ on 3 August 2010 at 12:58
Some folks from Microsoft participated in a couple of License Working Group telephone calls earlier this year. They had some specific questions about using OpenStreetMap and the licenses. You can find their questions on the wiki under the community guidelines under trivial transformations, metadata layers and indexing.
osm.wiki/Open_Data_License/Community_Guidelines
I'd like to see more feedback and participation from the community on all of the community guidelines.
Do Microsoft have a history of aggression towards Free Software, the GPL, Open Source, Open Standards, small business, etc? Yes. Does Microsoft spread FUD regarding software patents? Yes.
Is past behaviour an indication of future behaviour? It can be.
But what about welcoming new participants to OpenStreetMap? OpenStreetMap even has open in the name. The best open projects do not discriminate based on field of endeavour or use. We expect all OSM participants to abide by the OSM licenses. And we even presume good faith when contacting mappers who make edits we don't understand.
Is Microsoft consuming and displaying OSM data? Yes. Are they doing this for their own purposes? Yes.
Doesn't that describe the actions of every consumer of OSM data? Yes.
Is Microsoft fulfilling their obligations under the OpenStreetMap license? If so, what more permission do they need?
Awareness is good. Discrimination is bad. We each have to find our own balance between awareness and um, defensive preconceptions.
Comment from Baloo Uriza on 3 August 2010 at 16:39
I'm not sure any such balance needs to be found with Microsoft, given that they've only been going down the destructive path I've described for 35 years. "He's not a bad guy, he's stopped raping people. Never mind he's spent the better part of four decades forcibly penetrating people, that's no indication that he's going to keep doing that!"
Comment from marscot on 3 August 2010 at 17:25
I think its a good thing, gets osm into more people view, and it does says its OSM map not bings, so most people will know that bing is only using that data from an open source project.
Comment from Zverik on 5 August 2010 at 08:32
> They're using us as a publicity stunt without giving anything back to the community, essentially.
And it is bad because...
a) no one should mention they're using OSM
b) using OSM without giving back to the community is prohibited
c) Microsoft is evil (what year is it outside?)
Comment from davespod on 5 August 2010 at 08:45
I too, don't see how this is bad news. Except for one thing: from now on lazy, stupid journalists will stop calling it "CloudMade's OpenStreetMap" and start calling it "Microsoft's OpenStreetMap" :)
http://www.socialcarnews.com/blog/1047934_misled-by-a-map-fix-it-yourself-with-openstreetmap#comments