http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/de/

SPAM

Do you know of something similar exists just with pictures?

Oh an delete this too plz @andinimulya/diary/21614

DO SOMETHING AGAINST THIS!

I’m so fucking sick of this Spam…

In short, highway=bus_stop is the standard way to indicate the pole location of a bus stop, and will likely continue to be for the foreseeable future.

But some places are actually using the public=transport schema: http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/2V4

Not rendering it still remains the main reason it isn’t use in my opinion as you can see all bus stops got the highway tag in addition to show it on the map

And we all know there is only one true god anyway.

Straßennamen mit Schlössern und Gassen/Gäßchen werden oft mit “ß” geschrieben.

Joseph-Strauß-Straße in eine Joseph-Strauss-Straße änderte.

Würde ich jetzt auch beide nicht einfach ändern, aber ich bin halt auch schon mal auf sowas wie eine Josehp-Strauß-Straße gestoßen. ss / ß war jetzt nicht was ich mit offensichtlich meinte, sondern mehr wenn mal ein Bürgrmeister-… findet. Muss zugeben die Beispiele in dem Fall waren nicht so gut.

Oder sowas habe ich auch noch nie gesehen: http://i.imgur.com/COosYE2.png

Ansonsten gibt es ja auch Quellen die man im Vergleich zu google nutzen kann z.B. haben teilweise Häuser oder Geschäfte in der Nähe einen Eintrag. Insbesondere durch WheelMap gibt es viele Einträge, wo nicht blind die ID/JOSM Straßennamen Empfehlung übernommen wurde.

Ein Hauptgrund das zu verfassenwar auch, um die Leute die Ortkentinsse haben etwas zu motivieren und zu zeigen, dass man hier nicht nach irgendwelchen sehr versteckten Straßen suchen muss.

Hatte auf die Schnelle nichts gefunden, daher habe ich es einfach mal hier gepostet.

Ging mir nur um die Bilder, nicht um den Post an sich. Ist einfach besser, wenn solche Bilder im Wiki liegen und nicht bei irgendeinem image hoster.

Hoste das Bild doch lieber mal im Wiki ;)

Evtl. mal schauen ob man es da auch noch irgendwo sinnvoll verliken kann. Denke da so an Pressarbeit. Ist vielleicht sogar ein picture of the week Kandidat.

Bin im Moment durch mein Studium selten in Augsburg. Hatte nur in den Semersternferien beim lernen hin und wieder mal etwas Zeit dort einiges an Hausnummern zu sammeln, ansonsten beschränkt sich das mappen größenteils auf Bing, aber da lässt sich wie man oben sieht auch einiges machen ;)

könnte für Externe der Eindruck entstehen, daß OSM entweder einfach zu viele “Fehler” enthält oder daß die Notes nicht abgearbeitet werden.

Das ist aber auch wo ich Intern das Problem sehe. Die meisten FIXMEs sind deutlich komplizierter als Notes und bleiben teilweise über Jahre offen, was die Motivation sich das ganze auf Seiten wie www.keepright.at anzuzeigen doch recht stark senkt, weil man zu 99% sehr alte Einträge sieht bei denen man nichts machen kann.

Klar es ist natürlich ein Vorteil, dass sowas dort und nicht in den Notes steht, aber ich habe eben auch das Gefühl, dass dort fast nichts abgearbeitet wird.

Und nicht vergessen place=locality anzugeben, sonst wird das ganze bei http://regio-osm.de nicht ausgewertet!

The old scheme (ignore all optional/common tags like ‘name’, ‘operator’, ‘ref’, etc): 1 node where PT users are waiting + 1 tag (“highway=bus_stop”)

Until you realize that there are tram stops which don’t include a bus=no, sometimes not even a tram=yes. And often the railway tags are on the track, not connected to the “bus” node.

By default you cannot 100% assume that highway=bus_stop is actually a stop just for a bus or even a bus at all.

Also the assumption “1 node where PT users are waiting” is wrong. As I pointed out in a comment above there are over 100000 bus_stops mapped together with stop_position. Which means probably most of them are on the road.

I pretty much share the opinion of the next comment here:

Reality is that newcomers mostly use presets for tagging. So it would not matter if a simple bus stop is represented by highway=bus_stop or public_transport=stop_position + bus=yes.

What I don’t really agree with is that the public_transport= needs that much work. Some examples would be nice going to be working on that, but what matters are the tables and the mandatory tags.

The problem is the highway=bus_stop page, which as there are 3 different opinions (use it as platform, on the road or not at all) is pretty much impossible to clean up without upsetting a lot of people… I personally as I said would just put a redirect on public_transport, while others stand 110% behind the tag and probably would rather do it the other way round.

I just don’t know what to say. I feel like you are telling me we shouldn’t teach kids to multiply 4x6, because 6+6+6+6 is something they are already familiar with and an easier approach.

Here in the West Midlands of UK, the highway=bus_stop is used in the same way by all mappers - the position of the bus shelter/pole.

And here in Germany it is very common to put in on a node in the street.

Looking at taginfo you can see that it is frequently used with public_transport=stop_position Assuming most of those are correctly set all those bus_stops are on the street, ID does even have an icon for that which suggest that that is the correct use.

I get the problem that the public transport schema is trying to solve, but if after 3 years the tag is not well adopted, then you have a problem.

It doesn’t help when it is not rendered on the map and the ID editor uses highway=bus_stop as default.

Personally I would start by making the wiki pages a lot easier to read (shorter, basic example, separate pages for buses, trams, etc).

I’m just saying, it needs to be with the community.

And that is my problem. Look at all the comments here. Everybody supporting highway=bus_stop How Am I supposed to clean up the wiki when we can neither agree on highway=bus_stop vs. public_transport nor if it is supposed to be used on the street or where people are waiting?

Meanwhile check out public_transport= and you get a very clean overview over the basic tags.

separate pages for buses, trams, etc

That whole purpose of the new public_transport system is that this is not needed.

Why should we say “sorry, churches are easy to map, but bus routes aren’t”? What sort of message is that to send out?

Why? Because REALITY! Some things are easier to map than others. A railway network is more complex than a house.

What about the administrative boundaries? Those aren’t easy to map either and might not exist in his town, I’d say on the same level if not more complicated than routes, yet they are successfully used all over OpenStreetMap. Are you questioning those, too? Has the whole boundary system failed? Should we just start using area=city with name=xyz instead of relations?

It is incumbent on people “designing” tagging schemes to make them approachable for the newcomer. If the scheme fails that test, it isn’t fit for purpose.

Sorry, but that is a GIANT misconception.

Pretty much any kind of relation is not easily approachable for a newcomer. Some are easier some are more complicated, but in general you won’t be able to do anything without a look into the wiki and even then you will spend more than a minute there. And that’s perfectly fine, newcomers don’t need to be able to map everything.

There is for example zero need that a newcomer should be able to map and understand the Traffic Message Channel Tagging Schema without investing some time.

It’s simpler. It’s gives people the information they want (i.e. where is the bus stop for this side of the road).

Mh no it doesn’t. There is not rule where the place the bus_stop

And it gets even better when you realize what’s actually in the Editor: .

Turns out that node you can see is absolutely useless. All the information is in the platform with a highway=bus_stop tag that isn’t shown.

You need to create a relation and add the appropriate stop_position for the direction of travel, right?

No. You should make a relation in the new schema, but that relation isn’t the important one. The route relation which gets the tag is what matters. Which is also my main argument why this is something that newcomers won’t be able to easily map.

If yes, then why not just do the same with highway=bus_stop and assume the stopping place is on the road adjacent to the bus stop?

Because your software does not just want to “assume” something. They want a stop position on the track/road

One of the main reasons we map public transport is for routing applications!

Why is the stopping point even relevant to OSM? Only the bus driver needs to know this, so why tag for a single end user?

Bus Driver = Bus = Software. Sorry, but did you really think we are just mapping things the end user can see on the map?

For a new user (or infrequent bus stop mapper) they won’t know that “platform” gets mapped to the side of the road, whist “stop” is as a node in the road.

Where else would you map platform. The name literally says what it is. And if a newbie places the stop node beside the road where the bus stops it takes me 1 second to drag it on the road.

All you are doing is ranting over osm.wiki/Tag:public_transport=, but not explaining how highway=bus_stop is better.

You say it is easier, but that’s just because you can apply highway=bus_stop randomly to whatever you want. Every fault you point out in the new schema pretty much applies to the old one, too. And yes maybe people will use wrong values, but we can fix that. Every day dozen of people apply wrong and new values to the shop= tag.

If you make it so simple that it’s obvious without having to look in the wiki then it many more people will help contribute data

Again are bus stops really something where you need a lot of beginners to contribute? My city had every stop I use and most nodes date back 4 years when you check the history.

How should public transport be converted into a simple interface for iD?

If you search for Bus it could show you Bus Stop and Bus Platform, then instead of placing highway=bus_stop, it places public_transport=stop_position and bus=yes. With the platform it just ignores the bus part and places a platform.

And if the user figures out to search for public transport it could list the things even better (like it now does with building)

Stops as nodes on the way, platforms next to the way makes this task more challenging.

How is highway=bus_stop better? Great it can be used for both, but do you really think that is what Telenav or Bus companies want? A tag that’s not even 100% defined, so it can’t even be fixed by an experienced mapper, because there is no right way to do it? Btw. here is actually a company using the public_transport schema, they even have their own mappers applying it.

Overall a user would be more likely to place the public_transport nodes correctly, because the schema presents him with 2 options: stop_position & platform. And platform is self explaining so it’s easier to guess where stop_position belongs