Having finished my detailing and taken GPX files, I have now (as before) deleted the two routes.

I had tried to use GPX downlaods for Orange Way and (looking ahead) Monarchs Way. Both seemed to be quite disjointed (and far in excess of the advisory 400 elements). Making sense of them became a Herculean task. After much effort, I reverted to creating the two routes you noted.

*bypass = pass through

On your substantive comment.
I am continuing my progress north and east.
After Exeter there are parts of many routes that I expect to follow.
For example, from Exeter is was that eastern section of Orange Way.
From Hawkchurch I expect to follow a relevant part of Monarch's Way through to the floating harbour of Bristol.
Then Offa's Dyke and Wales Coast Path to Chester.

From Chester my route is still under consideration but one destination is Settle and from there to Carlisle following the, as I understand it, the cousre of the Midland Line.

I am open minded about how to restart at Isle of Whithorn, Dumfries and Galloway.

From Isle of Whithorn there are four marked routes that, more or less, provide a continuous route to John of Groats.

As before, my pupose is to take GPX files to use on my Android tablet (private use only) and (as before) to delete any thing I have created.

PS
I have walked Whithorm Way from Paisley to Ayr, a small part of West Highland Way.
I have driven Settle to Carlisle twice (a through walking route coincides about 80%) and the between Fort William amd Inverness.
Amd spent much time viewing aerial and street level imagery.

This route will bypass the ancestral areas three of my grandparents.

Regards

Last one first
When getting a route list, it is more than helpful to know the road (even though it is a sidewalk / footpath / pavement / whatever.
It is my understanding, paths of these type are an integral part of the road reserve as deteremined by the controlling authority.
I accept what you say about England and its regions.

And I say, with great respect and in the interests of better information, it may be approppriate for the England and regional consensus be taken again.

Thank you for providing the schema you have.

I have no issues in the principles you are addressing.

My only concern is how the structure (on the ground sequence if you like) will endure.

The structure / sequence is geographical. If taking, say, a week going from west to east, the walker would normally pass through Tonawanada, Amherst, Lockport and possibly stop at Rochester.

An issue I can forsee is ensuring these sections stay in sequence when reviewed in, say, WayMarkedTrails (or whatever).

My interest in the Empire State Trails was as a way to arrive at a relatives home in Kinston, Ontario. Jumping of a plane in/near New York City, getting to The Battery, ending at the border and making a way to Ottawa and walking the Rideau to her place had a great appeal, in principle. My first issue was making sense of the various segments. There was no sequence to the presenation, sections started and stopped it was impossible to make a plan. Sure, there was a line on the page but ...

I understand the points you have made.

Rgretably, from what I can see at a distance, the only consistent information on the ground is the Empire State Trails rondel.

If, together, we can have stuff available in order.

A suggestion is:
I will implement the schema you have presented for Tiers 1, 2 and 3. For tier 4, where most of the work is, I will implement for the first 8 - Buffalo State Park to Rochester.
At the end of August we review, with a focus on the west to east hiking sequence (and not alphabetical order).

In summary, I think we are both agreed in principle but have different experiences (mapping and walking/cycling) that influence the way we move ahead.

Kind regards

My observations on the last item (4th tier) first.
1) I have mapped very much longer hiking routes in the one country with three tiers [national (1), regional (10) and local (so many I lost count)]
2) walkers to take 4 or 5 days to cover what a cyclist will do in 1 day.
This is a generalisation based on my experience.
3) my expectation is that most of the Erie Canalaway tier 4 are about right for a daily effort, some (especially after Syracuse) will be a stretch and some might be combines. By Empire State Trails have made the selection and that is what I will keep to: it is their creation that we are trying to give effect to.
3) In this case the "problem" tier is having three distinct route groups
4) So, can we consider NOT having that first level Empire State Trail super relation. I suggest this as a talking point only.

My comments on you substantive points above are in the next post

On seconds thoughts, as your original comment was on the last two sections on the approach to Rochester, please provide how you would see the names and reference for them.

Best wishes

Hi

Would you please reply with the schema you are proposing.

I suggest the name and reference for first 2 or 3 sections of the Buffalo to Rochester stage.

Regards

@julcnx
Thank you.
I think moving about 180 degrees and 12 time zones is a record for me.
Regretably, I had got quite fed up, as I was follwoing a route I hope to walk in 2025, of what I saw as so, so many egregious previous mappings. Here, compared with the aerial imagery, paths had been mapped through natural woods without a visible path, in the water and so on. Over many miles.
I just needed to work at something that I could make a real difference with.
I had taken a few minutes time-out, and when I returned ...
It was a one-off situation.
And, hopefully, will not be repeated.

Again, thank you for reminding me.
Again, thanks for

I am sisncerly indebted to you for raising the difficulties you saw.

I commend you to review the various sections as presented in Way Marked Trails.

Empire State Trails website
This is the source I use.
Consistently using common codes EST, EC, HV and CV are analgous to using US, NY and CR for road numbers.
On the Way Marked Trails cycling page I note codes such as 11, EST and EC are used. Of course these are from the ref field.
The EST website has references such as CV01 or EC28.
I have used these in the reference field and added them to the name, to assist with understanding.

I have also added as much material from the EST website as OSM will allow. The point being to ensure users of the material in OSM can leverage of the EST website.

So, rather than create some new structure, references amd names.

I have also picked up your observation about searching.

I am testing various alternatives names.

These alternatives are taken from the EST website.

So far, results are promising.

Looking forward to your comments on how the cycling code names are in agreement with the EST website.

Thank you again for your observations.

I am quite content to consider how the various sections and stages that Empire State Trails use should be shown.

I continue to look at how the Empire State Trails are signed. So far the dominant sign appears to be the orange rondel. This is often supplemented by an arrow showing direction.

At Green Island, for those approaching from Albany, the supplementary signage is the word west or north under a rondel at the point of divergence.

Occassionally, when the EST website inidcates stage point I see a supplementary sign using the word trailhead.

I am not sure these would qualify for use with the key name=*

I have also look at the the terminology shown on the cycling pages for EST EC.

There I note a code number from 1 to 4.
I also note the names for each intermediate section (Fair Ground and Dewitt) do not seem to be names in the EST website as section or stage names.

I would appreciate your comments on how the names used for cycling along the Erie Canal relate to the EST website.

Hi and thanks for your question
The separate stages come from the Empire State Trails website. I am currently adding in the details taken from those 28 stages from Buffalo to Green Island and have currently completed to Rochester.
The Empire State Trails website gives the structure or sequence that I am following. OSM, when discussing walking, cycling and other routes suggests WayMarkedTrails.org is a useful browser tool.
From my limited observations so far, on the ground there is only the circular Empire State Trails marker with indicators for direction – arrows that point ahead, left etc.
Here is a link that shows the four regional groupings from the EST website.
https://hiking.waymarkedtrails.org/#route?id=11486087&type=relation
On selecting “Sections” you should see a structure to the information shown.
EST = Empire State Trails – the source of the information
H = hiking
Erie Canal in clear – the three letter acronyms (ECa for example) that follow indicate
EC = code for Erie Canalway
a = Buffalo to Rochester
Selecting any one of those four sections will display the stages that EST show in their website.
On selecting ECa and then “sections” you will see your example of ECa08 amongst others.
Here is a direct link for the Brockport to Rochester stage
https://hiking.waymarkedtrails.org/#route?id=17814735&type=relation
This faceted code (ECa08) enables the structure of the Empire State Trails website to be emulated in Open Street Maps.
A limit to any faceted code in OSM is the upper limit of five characters that WayMarkedTrails will display.
At a big picture level, ADT American Discovery Trail, as shown in OSM, goes some of the way to using a faceted coding structure.
I hope that answers you question as to where the example you gave fits into a bigger picture.
Best wishes

Jass, thank you for your thoughtful and considered comments.

I have walked many routes in Scotland, England and several other European countries, and contributed to OSM many details from those experiences.

Two years ago I looked at the LEjog gpx files and the resulting route. As I recall made considerable use of Public Footpaths in England: from a practical viewpoint (mine and others) the Public Footpaths are not realistic for long distance walking.

A long distance walk that has been in my sights for many years has been my version of a Lands End to John O'Groats: my version would connect almost all of my family connections.

A very large part of my route would include existing routes north from from Bristol, with only three in Scotland, for my way to achieve John O'Groats.

In Cornwall and Devon I first considered using the south west coastal path route and added accordingly some year ago.

Last October I spent a week in Cornwall, Devon and Somerset looking at walkable long distance possibilities towards Bristol.

Last week I deleted my earlier efforts using SWCP and made a route through to Exeter for my personal use.

Having obtained the resulting GPX files I have now deleted all of the LGa route details.

I am aware of the need to map routes that have been reliably published and verified and believe I have complied in other cases.

I hope my explanation fully answers your questions on this matter.

As you appear to have some oversight of walking routes, I have some observations about details for a well established route around London that I walked in October.

These are of a generic nature, using that routes details as an example.

Please advise if I can discuss the generic aspects with you.

Alwyn

Short answer = “no.
Highway=pedestrian is not appropriate in this setting
The operator's map describes these as "main paths".
The same operators map makes a feature of "Downhill Walk" from 100 m asl high Cable Car terminus (south centre of the Gardens) to Tree House then northeast towards the CBD. This 2 km walk almost exclusively uses these very broad ways (as segments are called in the operators map).
The highway=service road tag lets OSM mirror the operator’s map.
Roads tagged here in this way are typically asphalt paved and about 3 metres wide.
There are many paths that service vehicles can access in the normal course and which I have left as highway=path.
OSM requires contributors to first mark what is there (in this case a road) and then mark who/what has access.
In this case, tags such as "Track/Land access" might be an alternative when supported by tags that make such a highway visible.
In this case, tags such as "Path" are considered unhelpful as the operators “main paths” will be “lost” amongst all the other paths, enjoyable as they are in their own way.

Thank you for your comment.
I have reworked the detail to avoid that element.
While the proof of the pudding ..., I suspect your intervention has resulted in a better outcome in that area.

dear contributors

As I have said, with respect to this matter, I am away from my usual resources until late November/early December.

I have some appreciation of the issues you raise.

I have undertaken to work with those who tell me they are having signs installed, along with other material for walkers.

In this recent stream there is mention of some other issues and a discussion. Can these please be listed so I can begin to consider them in December, when I will have access to my usual resources.

Best regards, Alwyn

Forgot to add:

My perception of the GPX files is they having walked and or cycled the route.

thank you for your observations

I am working with a group based in The Netherlands.
They tell me they are covering the route with signage, simmer to what I see each day on Via Francigena.
I have also walked a Saint James Way in Spain and see many informal signs.
And I have just completed a section of Via Francigena with no signage at corners, for example.
What I do see is many pilgrims consulting their smartphone to find/check the way forward.

I will have an email conversation with The Netherlands based group, to confirm my understanding. Regrettably, that may take time. Partly because, as I explained, I have minimal resources with me.

Would please correct the one mistake.

Would you please also explain your connection to these decisions.

Alwyn

Again, thank you for your comment.
My lack of German has led to that.

You will understand the need for any route list to have every part with a name. And not to have the default "unnamed highway" or similar. In a route list, that is not helpful.

If this section of the route is not part of a named road,, track, whatever, then so be it.

As I do not have an editing facility for the next two months would you please remove the inappropriate name for me.

Regards, AlwynWellington