Thank you. We call it Matariki (the time at which the constellation the Greeks called Pleiades and the Japanese, Subaru) is first seen and marks the new year for our first nations.

Not guilty.
My focus for Severn Way was to fix the many little things that led to elevation profiles shown in WayMarkedTrails as being incomplete or "deranged".
At that time I was also conscious that order in which relations with the same name in a super relation were randomly sequenced.
OSM seems to have changed to the sequence of route relations as entered in the super relation as being the order to be rendered.

I can say that using a notation such as "SW (1)" is not a style that I would default to.

But you will see the reference above to "over 900 elements is difficult to maintain in sequence"

That was also a concern with Shropshire Way north and ... south and was the primary factor for revising Shropshire Way into the stages that the SW Association adopted about a decade ago.

Kia kaha (take care, be strong)

On your last suggestion, I can only say I am most susceptible to joining others for a beer.
My work with Shropshire Way is part of finding a workable and walkable route that would join my forebears arriving in these climes between 1850 and 1924 from Kent, Devon and several locations in Scotland.
Routes across southern England are less of an issue.
In Scotland, Whithorn Way north-east to Glasgow, West Highland Way onto Fort William, Great Glen Way to Inverness and John O’Groats Trail from there to Latheron. Then Aberdeen to Edinburgh to complete that journey.
In west England, I propose to use national cycling routes to Bristol, then Chepstow to Hereford, Offa’s Dyke to connect with Shropshire Way and around to Oswestry, Wrexham, Holywell and down to Chester.
I have an intention to arrive at Settle (how is not yet fully clear) and follow the central railway to Carlisle with grandiose thoughts of how to get to Whithorn (south-west Scotland).
So, a beer at Wem will be a very welcome interlude, should I get that far.

Kia kaha (take care, be strong) Alan

I would appreciate your observations on a point that have been raised.

The original comments by others some years ago was whether in Open Street Maps, the top route name should continue as Shropshire Way Main Route (with a resulting automatic "ref" of SWMR.
The alternative was to be simply Shropshire Way (and resulting automatic "ref" of SW).

In my work, I have created a "ref" of ShWay and so distinguish this route from the much more extensive Severn Way (ref = SW) and which share the same paths in some areas.

For the stages I have created, for example, a “ref” of ShW15 for the last stage.
What do you think?

Phil, thank you for your observation.
My sole (and very week) defence is that I fancy myself as a touch typist, but ...

I've corrected the mispsellings in the route relations.

See:
https://hiking.waymarkedtrails.org/#route?id=19253062&type=relation&map=12.0/52.9186/-2.7723

Kia ora CoyKoi

I accept the history you have given.
And I have read the Wiki on turning circles and accept what is said there.

My edit was in relation to a reported difficulty with the walking route that passes through the turning area.

It is a feature of any route is that it starts at one point and continues uninterrupted until it reaches the end point.

There are two walking routes that pass through that turning area.

I looked at aerial and street level imagery. In one I noticed a vehicle was parked on the north side of the turning area.

My source for difficulties with routes is WayMarkedTrails.org and a relatively new feature to analyse a route relation.

I will wait a few days for your re-edit to settle and then rexamine the two routes with WayMarkedTrails.

I will let you know my findings.

If need be we can have another discussion.

Kia kaha, Alwyn...

These are service access ways for KiwiRail purposes..
They are also padlocked near SH59.
I could not find any information on the tracktypes as then marked.
Standarisation is a useful thing to do.

Please advise how the track types you refer to are usable and useful.

The need for a feature like this comes from the Greater Wellington Regional Council and the description used on way markers of "Farm Hub" in Belmont Regional Park, especially on the Porirua side.

In this form it becomes a searchable destination.

I tried circles with varying diameters.

On reflection, I think (in this usage, at least) the circle could be a tad bigger. The size of the rectangle looks good.

In my experience, using just a locality marker does not give the visibility needed in the range of zoom levels.

I would appreciate any positive

I am more than content to continue to experiment with the objective of achieving clarity at all zoom levels.

I work in areas that I know and know that needs keep on changing.
There are two schools of thought for reidential areas.

One is to work in a very detailed way to exclude streets of all types. This level of detail is typically only visible at zoom level 17 and above. In other words, the detailed work is usually never seen.

The other is to acknowledge the increasing difficulty in showing many other details, such as street numbers, paths, overhead electicity cables and supporting posts, and bus stops.

I ackowledge that much original effort has been made. I also acknowledge, that things change.

In this present case, the work around and near Champion Street and over to Cannons Creek Park needed, in my view, an easier way of letting necessary detail become more visible.

In summary, adjusting detail is being done for positive present and future needs

What is your current role in this matter?

addenda - after:
"A look at most" please insert "European"

Occasionally the controlling authority may decide to permit bicycles to also use the footpath.

You seem to be suggesting, where both the carriageway (road) and the footpath are mapped, the footpath should not be named.

When a walking or hiking route is prepared which includes these footpaths, any route list will include the name of the street. This way the walker/hiker can confirm they are on the right route.

For wayfinding, Open Street Maps suggest online tool WayMarkedTrails.org. A look at most countries, using that tool, shows a very large number of walking/hiking routes.

I would be pleased to continue the discussion and look forward to hearing from you.

Thank you for your enquiries.

This link to Wikipedia should give you the overview you ask for.

Concerning conventions:
Your query assumes this is a convention against naming paths forming part of a roadway.

I know of no such convention. Can you please oblige me.

In most urban places that I pass through the roading reserve includes the carriageway for motor vehicles and bicycles with a footpath an integral part of the construction separated by a kerb and channel for storm water.

Hi, just coming back to the task of completing the renaming and coding of the EST hiking routes.

I noticed two "hickeys", using Way Marked Trails.

The first was in the cycling route from Albany to Green Island. This was showing both cycling and walking netwok codes. I have removed the walking parts. This change seems OK. Would you please check.

The second was a 16 km section from Fairground to DeWitt tagged as walking.

This is part of relation headed as Empire State Trail (Super bike) and referencing empiretrail.ny.gov and the REF=EST

You will be aware of a route relation referencing www.canals.ny.gov/trails and the REF=ECT.

The route duplication is most apparent on Erie Boulvard East (Syracuse) at the eastern end of this section as it approaches Bridge Street.

The route referencing EmpireTrails.NY is on a footpath.

The route referencing Canal.NY is on the nearby cycleway.

When selecting either of these, WayMarkedTrails-cycling shows a distance over 1200 km.

While it seems one or the other route relation is redundant, I felt unable to decide which.

It might also be helpful, for the names of relations at national (and regional) levels have "cycling" or "hiking" added as a way to add clarity.

Are you able to oblige on this wash up?

Hi

My focus, as noted in the changeset comment, was to record the ST303 section of a hiking route.

Would you please help by:
describing "RTK" elements
and
where they feature in my edits.

Kind regards.

PPS:
Route Signing
In doing my work, as noted above, I make much use of street level imagery.

For the routes Orange Way, signange was patchy at best.

At intersetctions east of Woodbury:
Castle and Cottles Lane (Mar 22)
Castle Lane and B3180 (Nov 21)
nothing was visible.

For your information.

Having finished my detailing and taken GPX files, I have now (as before) deleted the two routes.

I had tried to use GPX downlaods for Orange Way and (looking ahead) Monarchs Way. Both seemed to be quite disjointed (and far in excess of the advisory 400 elements). Making sense of them became a Herculean task. After much effort, I reverted to creating the two routes you noted.

*bypass = pass through

On your substantive comment.
I am continuing my progress north and east.
After Exeter there are parts of many routes that I expect to follow.
For example, from Exeter is was that eastern section of Orange Way.
From Hawkchurch I expect to follow a relevant part of Monarch's Way through to the floating harbour of Bristol.
Then Offa's Dyke and Wales Coast Path to Chester.

From Chester my route is still under consideration but one destination is Settle and from there to Carlisle following the, as I understand it, the cousre of the Midland Line.

I am open minded about how to restart at Isle of Whithorn, Dumfries and Galloway.

From Isle of Whithorn there are four marked routes that, more or less, provide a continuous route to John of Groats.

As before, my pupose is to take GPX files to use on my Android tablet (private use only) and (as before) to delete any thing I have created.

PS
I have walked Whithorm Way from Paisley to Ayr, a small part of West Highland Way.
I have driven Settle to Carlisle twice (a through walking route coincides about 80%) and the between Fort William amd Inverness.
Amd spent much time viewing aerial and street level imagery.

This route will bypass the ancestral areas three of my grandparents.

Regards

Last one first
When getting a route list, it is more than helpful to know the road (even though it is a sidewalk / footpath / pavement / whatever.
It is my understanding, paths of these type are an integral part of the road reserve as deteremined by the controlling authority.
I accept what you say about England and its regions.

And I say, with great respect and in the interests of better information, it may be approppriate for the England and regional consensus be taken again.

Thank you for providing the schema you have.

I have no issues in the principles you are addressing.

My only concern is how the structure (on the ground sequence if you like) will endure.

The structure / sequence is geographical. If taking, say, a week going from west to east, the walker would normally pass through Tonawanada, Amherst, Lockport and possibly stop at Rochester.

An issue I can forsee is ensuring these sections stay in sequence when reviewed in, say, WayMarkedTrails (or whatever).

My interest in the Empire State Trails was as a way to arrive at a relatives home in Kinston, Ontario. Jumping of a plane in/near New York City, getting to The Battery, ending at the border and making a way to Ottawa and walking the Rideau to her place had a great appeal, in principle. My first issue was making sense of the various segments. There was no sequence to the presenation, sections started and stopped it was impossible to make a plan. Sure, there was a line on the page but ...

I understand the points you have made.

Rgretably, from what I can see at a distance, the only consistent information on the ground is the Empire State Trails rondel.

If, together, we can have stuff available in order.

A suggestion is:
I will implement the schema you have presented for Tiers 1, 2 and 3. For tier 4, where most of the work is, I will implement for the first 8 - Buffalo State Park to Rochester.
At the end of August we review, with a focus on the west to east hiking sequence (and not alphabetical order).

In summary, I think we are both agreed in principle but have different experiences (mapping and walking/cycling) that influence the way we move ahead.

Kind regards

My observations on the last item (4th tier) first.
1) I have mapped very much longer hiking routes in the one country with three tiers [national (1), regional (10) and local (so many I lost count)]
2) walkers to take 4 or 5 days to cover what a cyclist will do in 1 day.
This is a generalisation based on my experience.
3) my expectation is that most of the Erie Canalaway tier 4 are about right for a daily effort, some (especially after Syracuse) will be a stretch and some might be combines. By Empire State Trails have made the selection and that is what I will keep to: it is their creation that we are trying to give effect to.
3) In this case the "problem" tier is having three distinct route groups
4) So, can we consider NOT having that first level Empire State Trail super relation. I suggest this as a talking point only.

My comments on you substantive points above are in the next post