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169692231 5 months ago

I've updated the wiki to reflect this, as it's a bit counterintuitive when bus station operators use standard traffic signs, but with unsigned exceptions at their discretion.

If you have a bus station service road with a speed limit under 20mph, you can generally assume that it's not a public highway, as non-standard speed limits on public roads require DfT permission.

169692096 5 months ago

Again, this is a privately owned bus station rather than a public road where the strict TSRGD definition of diagram 616 is a little looser. The bus station (my local bus station, as it happens) is also accessed by maintenance and cleaning vehicles, therefore vehicle=private.

There's no need for access=no here and certainly no justification to add it however one interprets a no entry sign.

169692231 5 months ago

NB On a public road, TSRGD diagram 616 is indeed vehicle=no, unless there's an exception plate or exemption in the traffic order which would alter this.

169692231 5 months ago

It's vehicle=private because it's a privately owned road - it is used by TfL service vehicles.

access=no is just wrong

169830915 5 months ago

The Greenway is owned by Thames Water and is not a public right of way or a highway maintained at public expense. That's why access is tagged as permissive rather than designated. Unless you have an OSM-compatible source showing that a legal right of way exists, please revert. Thanks.

34650022 5 months ago

Liar.

169343421 5 months ago

You did add a very small number foot=no tags, e.g. way/184658172/history/9

You may also infer the UK mapping community's general attitude to foot=use_sidepath from the fact that there are only 72 instances of that tag in the UK, 10% of which are on nodes (no idea what was intended there).
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/tags/foot=use_sidepath#overview

167444504 5 months ago

I'd like to thank you for all the realignments and the separate sidewalks which you added. Those are very helpful and I'm sure everyone using OSM data here will benefit.

You'll see that the changes I made subsequently didn't lose any of that. I removed instances foot foot=no and replaced foot=use_sidepath with sidewalk:$side=separate.

I also made a few minor splits in footway=crossing ways so that they didn't form T-junctions with footway=sidewalk ways. This makes it a lot easier to survey and add accessibility features and obstacles like kerbs and tactile paving with tools like StreetComplete.

If my tone grew more abrasive through successive changeset comments, I apologise. Discovering a large number of non-existent pedestrian prohibitions on the carriageways of major roads did not entirely fill me with joy.

169343421 5 months ago

For a discussion about the frequently incorrect addition of foot=no through a StreetComplete quest which is now disabled in the UK, see:
https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/poll-should-streetcomplete-disable-the-are-pedestrians-forbidden-to-walk-on-this-road-without-sidewalk-here-quest-in-the-uk/118387

The fundamental issue here is that access tags in OSM are supposed to represent legal permissions and restrictions. In that context for public highways in the UK:
foot=no requires explicit signage
foot=use_sidepath doesn't exist

Having said all that, many thanks for the separate sidewalks you added on some of the main roads in the City of London. Those will be helpful to people like me who use OSM-derived pedestrian routing applications.

169343421 5 months ago

The wiki page foe foot=use_sidepath clearly said, even before the edit you quote "In some countries it is illegal for pedestrians to use a road if a parallel compulsory sidepath exists."

This situation never arises in the UK.

Anything in the Highway Code with "should" or "should not" is guidance. Pedestrians still have an absolute legal right to walk on the carriageway unless they are explicitly forbidden.

167531440 5 months ago

Also, highway=living_street in the UK only applies when explicitly signed as a "Home Zone". This is extremely unlikely to be the case on a non-residential street in a city centre and certainly isn't the case here.

osm.wiki/Road_signs_in_the_United_Kingdom#881

118963540 5 months ago

Air Street isn't signed as a "Home Zone", so it's not a highway=living_street

osm.wiki/Road_signs_in_the_United_Kingdom#881

161942967 5 months ago

I'm not entirely convinced that a single crossing island justifies the creation of an 80 metre stretch of pretend dual carriageway.

169940298 5 months ago

(Review requested)

That looks fine, thanks for adding it to OSM.

169897101 5 months ago

Thanks - and happy mapping!

169897101 5 months ago

Welcome to OpenStreetMap.

When a road sign says "private road", this means that it is an unadopted, privately owned road, not that access is generally forbidden. For an un-gated privately owned road, the tagging you probably want is:

ownership=private
access=destination

Using access=destination tells routing software that it can be reached for deliveries, taxis, visitors, etc. but that there's no legal right of way and it's not a through route.

If a road is gated and visitors can only reach the gate without explicit permission (and someone opening the gate), then the gate and everything behind it can be tagged as access=private.

ownership=private
access=destination

169801885 5 months ago

With reference to delivery and destination, the two most common permitted plates under the diagram 622.1A sign are "Except for loading" and "Except for access". As OSM has distinct access tag values where loading -> delivery and access -> destination, it does not seem unreasonable to expect the exception to be tagged *as signed*. It doesn't matter whether any current data consumes differentiate, because the law in the UK *does*. The delivery and destination values are similar, but not synonyms and should not be used interchangeably.

169799677 5 months ago

Replied at https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/optimoroute-organised-editing-activity-in-the-uk-truck-hgv-access/129894/6

169815721 5 months ago

* junction with Freshwater Road, not Green Lane

169812367 5 months ago

Welcome to OpenStreetMap.

While I understand and sympathise with your reasoning, the problem with just deleting an object like this is that people will see it on aerial imagery and re-add.

I'm not sure what other tags should be added to capture the hazards present and so that data consumers are aware of them, but you could try asking at https://community.openstreetmap.org/

If the path is actually fenced off, then you could map the fence as a barrier=fence line and add access=no to any sections of path behind the fence.

Please also see osm.wiki/Why_can%27t_I_delete_this_trail%3F