Thomas, I'm afraid you're not correct that when you say "highway=cycleway is for ways that are designed & designated only for bicycles".

That has never been the case in UK mapping practice. It wouldn't make sense if it was - there are very, very few paths in the UK that are bicycle-only.

highway=cycleway can be a more useful tag than highway=path as it suggests that the path has been constructed to standards suitable for cycle traffic. To take an extreme example, a mountain path in Scotland could be tagged highway=path, foot=designated, bicycle=designated, surface=gravel. All of those might be true yet it still wouldn't be practically navigable by bike (unless you're Danny Macaskill). highway=cycleway provides that reassurance.

That's probably a good workaround - I was wondering about whether to map it as a way, but mountain_pass is a smart idea. Thanks.

This changeset has been reverted fully or in part by changeset/94826785 where the changeset comment is: Let's try again...

Thanks - I'll revert and take another look. I wonder if we need an extra tagging solution of some sort - certainly passes/saddles are often described as being on a road (e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingman_Pass) and cyclists/hikers would consider themselves passing over it, even if the actual elevation point is a few metres away.

This changeset has been reverted fully or in part by changeset/94760686 where the changeset comment is: Revert undiscussed Regent's Canal towpath tagging change

> This sounds like a selfish manoeuvre

That's as may be, but OSM maps facts, not your opinion on what's selfish.

Hi - I'm a bit bemused by way/750618349 being tagged as highway=secondary in this changeset - in what way is that appropriate?

Yeah, this pretty clearly needs to be reverted. FinB2000, you should be able to revert your own edit given that you've chosen to use JOSM, but if either of you need any assistance then please contact the OSM Foundation's Data Working Group.

Just commenting to say this is really excellent mapping!

Hi! In this changeset you changed way/315601384 to be highway=unclassified.

Significant parts of this way are completely unpaved and little more than a mountain track. In Britain, we would expect highway=unclassified to be paved unless otherwise stated (and even that is very rare).

I've changed it back. In general you'll find that most road classifications in Britain are correct so I'd suggest your team shouldn't change them without checking with the local community.

cheers
Richard

To add with reference to this particular example:

There is very very clearly a difference between way/129297661 (which already had tracktype=grade2) and way/370062638 (to which Modest7 has edited tracktype=grade4 in this changeset). If you can't see that from imagery I would strongly recommend you consult your local optician and/or computer monitor servicing technician.

This edit reflects that difference. So it has materially improved the OSM database in this area. Whether tracktype= is the ideal tag is another question (and that is more a failing of an imperfectly conceived, rather subjective tag tbh), but this edit adds useful information so should not be reverted.

A wholesale revert would be an over-reaction.

OSM is iterative - it doesn't have to be 100% accurate at the first attempt, though it should take care never to be actively misleading. Lots of OSM data, particularly in remote or less travelled areas, has been added by reference to imagery. That includes surface quality information - for example, in areas of the rural US without significant tree cover, it's very often possible to discern approximate surface quality from imagery, and doing so is a great improvement on the base TIGER import.

So what Modest7 has done here is certainly not against standard mapping practice in OSM.

Rather, I think the main question is whether data consumers are likely to infer greater certainty from the tracktype= tag than armchairing can provide. There is obviously a difference between "I have surveyed this and it's definitely grade5" vs "I have looked at this from imagery and it seems grade5-ish". (That said, parsing tracktype= is very problematic anyway because international practice varies so greatly: in particular, the values are used differently in France, Germany, and the US, and I have different rules for each in cycle.travel.)

So my suggestion would be that any bulk edit should not be to revert this useful work, but to add "source:tracktype=imagery"; and that Modest7 should add that tag for future edits. (To the affected way, not the changeset; no-one parses way metadata with reference to changeset tags and nor should they be expected to.)

Richard (writing with my cycle.travel hat on)

Ultimately, common tag documentation needs to move to a site with a pull request model - in much the same way as install documentation moved to switch2osm because people kept fouling up the instructions on the wiki. But that would require someone to do the work of setting up such a site.

*take note (not "not"!)

Hi - in this changeset you changed highway=bridleway to highway=service, which is fine, but by adding access=private you've broken bike/foot access. Bridleways in the UK permit bike and foot access. I've reinstated it in changeset/87908293 but you might want to take not for future edits and those by your colleagues.

The intention is to move to vector tiles in due course which will enable client-side language changes, and there's a bunch of work being done on it right now (https://github.com/pnorman/openstreetmap-cartographic). But it's not going to happen overnight.

Fair point on the recent slash addition - sorry, I had thought it'd been done earlier!

(Or put another way, name= should be Welsh in areas where people listen to Bob Delyn and English in areas where people prefer Goldie Lookin' Chain)

Indeed they can. That, however, does not preclude that Welsh names can be used in name= as well. Nowhere on that page does it say "only English may be used for name=".

Long-established international practice in OSM is that the majority language is in the name= tag. So I'd expect to see (for example) English in Monmouthshire and the Pembrokeshire coast, and Welsh on the Llyn.

Where there isn't a clear majority language, local practice is often to use both languages separated by a slash (though it's a bit of a hack tbh). That seems appropriate for Snowdonia.

As a general rule, if you're changing the name of a bloody large feature 15 years into the life of OSM, you should maybe reflect that you're unlikely to have suddenly thought of something that has escaped thousands of mappers for the last 15 years ;)

Hi - you appear to have turned this into a three-mile bridge which I'm guessing was not intentional ;)

Ha - comments crossed!