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168252632 6 months ago

Hello—it looks like a few things were broken or made more complicated in the changeset:

- The sand polygon surrounding northwestern Vegas (relation/19087109) appears to have been broken, as it no longer renders. This could be an issue as simple as an 'inner' member added to the relation as 'outer' or vice versa, or perhaps two disconnected ways.

- I've noticed that you have snapped a bunch of boundaries and multipolygons to Moccasin Road (way/14311102), and this is problematic for a couple reasons. Generally, you should avoid snapping things to roads that don't physically intersect with the roads (same goes for footpaths and waterways), especially large relations multipolygons and administrative boundaries, because you want to make an edit to such a way, you also have to edit all the relations attached to it and risk breaking them in the process. I've seen cases where a straight road serving as a boundary between two entities is added two each respective relation, but once a city boundary, a Native American reservation, and two or three natural area multipolygons are linked two a single unrelated routable way like Moccasin Road, it makes editing things more difficult and makes the objects more fragile, such as if an editor adjusted, split, or retraced the road in such a way that neglects the relations attached to it. Furthermore, it creates a massive bounding box (those red/blue squares that appear in the changeset history that show where edits were made), thus making it more difficult to see what simple edit was made because so many other things were also accidentally editied.

- Additionally, Moccasin Road here is not a straight line, whereas the Paiute reservation and the Las Vegas boundaries are relatively straight. In reality, the boundaries don't arbitrarily wiggle across the desert along an informal track road, but follow markers and fences on the ground that follow the same section line that Moccasin is located along.

168288083 6 months ago

While it is fully grade-separated, it's very short, and technically not part of the real motorway here, which would be the Airport Connector—this part of Paradise Road branches off the terminus of the Airport Connector at the series of terminal access flyovers before the tunnel. Another reason for this being primary over motorway would be it's narrow arterial road-like concrete median and low speed (35 mph), making it feel like a regular road when you drive along it instead of like a freeway as does the Connector. Part of the Airport Connector does have a low speed limit, but it retains a freeway-like structure and the speed limit increases once it exits the tunnel, whereas Paradise Road is just an arterial road that passes through an interchange partially, connecting to the other freeway at its end. Granted that it's a halfway combination between arterial road and freeway, I supplemented that with the expressway tag.

145450439 6 months ago

Back then I used to tag these short controlled-access spurs of highways that branch of other freeways as motorways, since that's what I had been used to seeing them tagged as, and under the basis it's connected to another freeway at its end, but since then I've actually been undoing those edits of mine as well as others I've come across. I've just now tagged this one as secondary with expressway=yes.

168168687 6 months ago

Sorry, I should specified which kinds of designations I speak of, like NHS (National Highway System) designations. These for example are the highways that the FHWA has deemed the most important to the country logistically, usually those that links major industrial and/or transport hubs. Sometimes, however, a highway number designation can be relevant to the road's importance, like an Interstate or U.S. Route, and even state routes in some states or in rural areas of a state like Nevada, but not always. Highway numbers can and should be taken into consideration on a case-by-case basis but in urban areas like Las Vegas than can almost always be ignored since they're more relics of the past and now only reflect who maintains the road rather than how important it is or a sign to be used for navigation.

I would say that it may not be that necessary to make a list of state highways in Nevada, as Wikipedia's list can be used if needed—but if you were to go about creating a proposal for the community, you can create a page on the OSM Wiki.

168168687 6 months ago

In short—the community and your own personal judgement.

The rules are really just vague guidelines that are followed by local OSM communities or individuals who try to put two-and-two together based off how everyone else does it. For US road classification specifically, these are based upon a community-built, consensus-approved documentation like this OSM Wiki page: osm.wiki/United_States/2021_Highway_Classification_Guidance

For primary roads in urban areas in particular, the guidelines would be to use this classification on the most important arterial roads—which is vague, and up to interpretation. Prior to when I started editing, a lot of the Las Vegas Valley's primary roads already followed this guideline. If I can recall correctly, the original significant primary roads in the valley were Craig, Lake Mead, Charleston, Tropicana, Boulder Highway, Las Vegas Blvd, Rainbow, Rancho, Paradise, Eastern, 5th Street, and Nellis—some of the most important arterial roads in the area at a glance. I went off how these were classified and upgraded other secondary roads, like Durango, Sahara, Cheyenne, etc. up to primary based on their similar roles and characteristics (like connectivity with major highways and regions of the valley, AADT, physical construction, road designation, HGV route) etc.

Unfortunately, a lot of highway classification cannot be determined with a source or a road number, and it will have to be up to the opinions of one, two, or many mappers. This can be avoided with a state highway classification page, but as far as I know, Nevada doesn't have one (yet). For the mean time, discussing and scrutinizing each road with other mappers one-by-one may be the best way to go about it.

168168687 6 months ago

It might be better to keep 5th Street primary here despite its relatively low AADT (when compared to east-wets routes—it still is the highest traffic north-south route through here), it actually is a very high-connectivity thoroughfare on the basis that it is the most direct north-south route through suburban North Las Vegas, linking the area to Downtown Las Vegas in a straight shot—plus it has connections with the Beltway in the north and I 15 via Cheyenne or Lake Mead in the south. I would wager that these are some of the reasons why the Federal Highway Administration even designated this as an NHS route.

168066963 6 months ago

You are correct in that it is useful for serving as a "do not re-map" note for users, which is harmless, but in an area like a construction site—and area that is subject to frequent updates—adding extra nodes, ways, and area polygons creates more clutter to have to work with and try to not to break as you add new features to the area or update their alignments to match imagery, etc.

Some people will be in favor of mapping demolished features to leave a note, while some will be wholly against adding more non-rendering clutter to the map, though, in my opinion, it should be fine as long as it can't be assumed at first glance that the road no longer exists, like in a situation where there isn't an under-construction roadway mapped right over its old alignment, in which case I would just add a note to the way.

167967504 6 months ago

Alta seems good as-is as well. While a freeway connection is a plus for justifying upgrading a road from tertiary to secondary, it's not necessarily required for secondary classification. Alta in its own merits should qualify for being a secondary road in that it provides a single straight shot route from Summerlin West to Downtown. And with its physical construction and AADT, it also slots right between a typical grid collector road you would see tagged as tertiary and a major primary thoroughfare like Charleston. Summerlin West may not be the perfect contender for a primary route (at least for the time being, over the coming years when it gets more built-up that could change), but it's still a major neighborhood seeing more and more traffic using these arterial roads by the day as it continues to grow.

167967504 6 months ago

Secondary would probably be the best classification for this section, especially since this forms a straight shot connection between Charleston, Town Center, and the Beltway when it transitions to Far Hills Avenue. It does have an AADT of 10k which is low compared to most other secondary roads in the valley, but not for the Summerlin area, since Alta and Anasazi see lower traffic counts themselves. Tertiary is best for smaller roads which see much less through traffic and connections to major roads, like Canyon Run Drive, Crestdale Lane, and Pavilion Center Drive.

167970087 6 months ago

Not necessarily, trunk roads are just major regional highways that could be any sort of road, divided or undivided, low or high speed, access-controlled or littered with driveways and adjacent properties. This is an example of a trunk road that happens to be an expressway. Historically, it may have been tagged as trunk for its physical construction as an expressway, but since the definition shifted from expressway to major inter-regional highways, it being a route linking the valley to Pahrump would be the reason for its trunk classification rather than because of it being a high-speed divided highway.

167970087 6 months ago

Blue Diamond Road does have driveway access, but its access is controlled by a central median and only accessible from the other side of the road via U-turn slip lanes in the median or at signalized intersections, rather than frequent median breaks or a central turn lane. While it's not fully-controlled access, the road is designed to handle large amount of traffic at highway speeds as opposed to the typical arterial like Rainbow which has far more driveway/side street access and lower speeds.

167924800 6 months ago

The section tagged as primary is where the I 15 ramps meet Spring Mountain leading traffic to Las Vegas Boulevard. West of the WB Spring Mountain to SB I 15 ramp and the ramps linking I 15 to EB Spring Mountain isn't being used by the same traffic getting between the Interstate and the Strip and effectively creates a short inaccessible primary stub being used only by traffic coming from the secondary route.

167635437 6 months ago

Wikipedia does have an article on collector roads—when referring to the street type (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collector_road) and an article about the local/express highway configuration, which does cover collector/distributor lanes within it (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local%E2%80%93express_lanes) (note that information won't be 1:1 with OSM classification criteria, but the info should be enough to give a general idea).

The best way of identifying these kinds of roads would probably be just through personal judgement. A narrower frontage-road like roadway that parallels the mainline freeway and links close-together interchanges to the main carriageways of the freeway can be assumed to be a collector-distributor lane and thus a type of long exit ramp rather than a separate freeway or a traditional frontage road.

The alternative would be to check official government maps. Not the TIGER-sourced background layers used you may find in an ArcGIS map, but a source that manually adds the roads like the CC OpenWeb, which labels these sort of roads as ramps in the Assessor Map layer.

167635437 6 months ago

I think this is the conflation of two different types of roads with different purposes that simply share the same name. The most common use for "collector road" refers to the bulk of the streets tagged as tertiary in the Las Vegas Valley. The other use of "collector road" applicable to these sort of ramps would be a more informal term for collector-distributor lanes, which do not serve as busier streets that traffic uses to get from local residential streets to the larger arterial roads, but rather are to separate traffic from the mainline highway between close-by interchanges, collecting all exiting/entering freeway traffic into a single consolidated ramp and reducing merging with thru traffic. These sort of roadways may occasionally have names/signed numbers, especially the longer multi-lane ones that are just as wide as the mainline freeway (see those along I 95 through Fredericksburg and 495 in Alexandria, VA), but generally they are both treated by traffic and designated by DOTs as just highway ramps, albeit longer and more complex than your typical slip lane or exit ramp. Since both the I 15 and US 95 ramps that were tagged as tertiary are both signed simply as exits rather than local lanes part of the main freeway, the best tag for them would be motorway links.

167635437 6 months ago

These sort of roadways would be better classified as links tagged based on which roads they link to rather than as actual roads since they are ramps linking roads rather than actual named roads themselves.

167552425 7 months ago

Same here haha. It might've just been a relic of expressway-based trunk tagging.

167070746 7 months ago

Technically not since it's only a stub, and trunk classification here would imply that Eastgate Road is a significant destination. Current motorway to primary configuration here should be fine as-is.

167070746 7 months ago

That tagging scheme would have to do more with connectivity than end-of-freeway expressway tagging. Typically trunk has been used to classify those little sections of motorways through signalized interchanges to connect the ramps on the non-freeway side with the freeway (in this case, the southbound 215 ramps with Summerlin Pkwy), though this would imply that Summerlin Parkway would be a trunk road if not a motorway, but since it primarily only serves local traffic rather then through traffic like I 11/Route 95 or bypassing traffic like the 215, primary for that little segment makes sense to me. AFAIK many other mappers would probably disagree with that conclusion since motorway renders at the same level as trunk and is thus often considered at the same importance level. However, if motorways are being classified based on physical characteristics rather than importance, Summerlin Pkwy, the motorway spur of the 93 Bus. loop in Boulder City, and the Airport Connector should be treated as freeway-standard primary roads and the 215, 11/95, and I 15 should be treated as freeway trunk roads, meaning your change to that segment of Summerlin Pkwy should be correct.

167380075 7 months ago

I have considered upgrading Rainbow Boulevard to trunk in the past as well for the reasons you stated, but ultimately I would have to believe that primary is the best classification for it. My initial considerations were its high traffic volumes and that it could be used for getting from Route 95 to the 215 to Highway 160, but it's still primarily local traffic using it, so I decided against it. Even though Rainbow does see more traffic than Durango, Jones, and Decatur, they all have very similar roles in the road grid, and the alternative would be to drop the latter roads down to secondary, which seems a little under-classified in my opinion. I think primary should be fine for all major thoroughfares of this nature in the Las Vegas Valley granted that they are mostly used by and intended for local traffic.

167070746 7 months ago

I would believe that the reason expressways aren't tagged and rendered the same way as motorways would be that it's very contentious among the community what an "expressway" is, granted that they can vary between a divided highway like US 95 north of Las Vegas/south of Boulder City, a New Jersey-style expressway that's divided and has interchanges but retains driveway access, a super-two like Route 7 around St. George, UT, or an undivided high-speed road limited access points like Route 9, also around St. George. This is opposed to a motorway/freeway which is more straightforward in concept; controlled-access, divided, and high-speed. This ultimately results in examples like the Route 73 Wilmington, Ohio bypass, which on paper is as important as the primary routes at each end of it, but it is characteristically a fully-controlled-access freeway.

The good thing about the expressway tag is that, while it doesn't really render on many map tiles aside from Americana as you mentioned, it does affect routing—which is just as if not more important than how it renders.