Actually I got curious to see how easy it would be to dig up the old GPS track and found it quickly! It does verify the path of those switchbacks that lines up with Bing and other imagery, so I'm going to set just that section back!

Ooh I've never messed with the 3D Elevation, I'll have to check it out! It's good to know you've been out there, my fear was you were some person in who knows where just doing everything on satellite and vibes haha

Specifically what caught my attention is the east entrance to La Tuna Canyon Park, which I had mapped with GPS and then was adjusted in this changeset, but after reading your message I put the GPS track back over it and I think the changes totally work and are an improvement!

While I was in Achavi tracking the changeset, though, I did notice the changes to the northwest end of La Tuna Canyon Trail - and the new path for the switchbacks there don't line up with any imagery I can find. I didn't adjust that trail after I hiked it (might have been before I was an OSM editor??) so I never uploaded my GPS track, but I can probably find it and upload if you'd like me to verify before adjusting it back

Hey there! I noticed on this changeset and a few other recent ones of yours in the area that there are trails being modified with a listed source of "aerial imagery" when the previous edits were made using in-person experience and GPS along with the aerial imagery. But some of the edits being made are in areas completely covered by trees with no path visible which would seem impossible by just satellite images - was tagging "aerial imagery" by itself a mistake and you actually hiked or biked these trails? If not, what's the reason for the edits?

Any luck with this?

Likewise, I'm sure you could guess my email in one try but...I'd prefer to keep the conversation public?
That's how this information can be referenced and shared and other folks can weigh in and whatnot. If you're thinking of sending screenshots, maybe imgur or something?

No rush! You saw how long it took me to get back to you! I had the thought about Wandrer making a change, and maybe they will have to - but I think, even if you're not getting credit for it, seeing the very occasional famously/recognizably named alley on the map makes sense and is helpful so if I were them I'd be reluctant to change things. Especially if it's just one area that's having the issue, and the cause is going against documentation (even if rightly so!).

That said, the dude who created Wandrer is WILDLY responsive and nice so I'm sure I could get a hold of him and get his thoughts if the conclusion is the names should stay!

Hm, I can't speak for CityStrides, but I can say that they definitely have a negative impact on Wandrer as alleys are not *counted* in Wandrer but are *rendered*, and now they're rendered with names that don't mean much (if anything) to 95+% of users - and sometimes those names appear first when zooming in instead of real neighboring street names.

Forgive me if this comes across as overly confrontational, but do you have links to any of those debates? I only ask because the standing documentation is *so* clear that the numbers belong in the ref= field, it's hard to accept "somebody who knows more than you said it should be the other way" without being able to read the arguments for myself, you know?

I say all this with all the respect for the work you're doing and with the friendliest of intentions. And oh man have I been sucked into a weird deep dive or two, especially detailing the new spreading grounds (speaking of waterways) and old landfills that have been (sometimes somewhat secretly!) converted to parks

Oh ok great, I kinda figured it had to be some source I couldn't access! I don't think I've changed or removed any since I wanted to ask first - except maybe one that was partially in a shopping center parking lot that I use a lot where I did a bunch of reorganizing?

Also while I was poking around into this wild world of OSM alleyways I did find that I think these alley numbers should be listed as reference codes with the tag ref= (i.e. ref=80875) instead of as osm.wiki/Tag:name=. I'm looking at the last bullet point at the end of the "Values" section on this page: name=*#Values .

I think the reasoning here is that when the alley has a name= tag, it appears in most renderings of the map and causes a lot of clutter and confusion. It seems some renderings know to prioritize displaying street names over alley names, but at least one I use does not so sometimes you have to zoom in further to get a street name than you do to get a neighboring alley name. That's actually how I realized all the alley names were relatively new. All of this explanation is to say: I can see you've put a ton of work into this so I don't want you to think I'm just here to be whiny and pedantic!

That said, I do think these should be tagged ref= (or perhaps loc_ref= ? see ref=* ). If you agree, I'm happy to help out in changing the tags in my area when I get the chance, and in the future whenever I encounter them!

Let me know what you think, and thanks for all your work - who better to have as a mapper than a location scout????

-Ray