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103976306 over 4 years ago

Hello, unfortunately I needed to revert this changeset:
- building deletions based on incorrect source reference. We concluded this because you deleted multiple buildings from a tea factory, which is still shown in Esri imagery and BING, back to 2019, however not on Maxar, dated 2020. So references to Esri as your (only) source didn't allow me to reference justifications of any "false" buildings.
- alignment changes according imagery, local GPS tracks (stored and uploaded to OSM) were not verified , you should align imagery with the map, not the map to your imagery. True the previous mapping showed misalignment with the same GPS track, so for your convenience and future users we added local calibration points in JOSM based on these GPS tracks and Mapillary GPS data.
- deletions without consultation of the previous editors or local community can be regarded as vandalism. Instead please contact them through this medium or any of the forums, we are there and willing to assist. Only delete incorrect items or vandalism, obsolete or demolished items should NOT be deleted but a lifecycle tag added so the history and justification is verifiable for all.

103074489 over 4 years ago

I wouldn't call the lack of landuse tagging in Kampala and UG at large troubling. It's a next step in establishing more details on base maps, the local community with the help of other OSM users and groups is working hard to improve it. Groups include the UN mappers, HOTOSM, youthmappers and a local Workgroup to document the local mapping and tagging practices, make appropriate field checks if in doubt. This with support and grants from the OSMF and other donors. Super-relations are hard if not impossible to maintain on the long term by the average user, so the local community decided to avoid them as we have very bad experience like with f.i. Lake Victoria. The reason why this relation is troublesome is primarily the fact that it is overwriting thousands of already mapped landuses in the area and does not comply with the good mapping guidelines, as I said before, landuse should not be used to map areas as big as an "agglomerate". Mass or edits with a large impact like this one should always be made in consensus with the local community. So did you contact the local community, have consensus ?

103074489 over 4 years ago

Yes, I do mean relation/12571016. You focus on single phrases in a guideline. The wiki is a guideline, not a rule or necessarily reflecting "common use" of OSM. Landuse is used differently across the world, in some countries on a macro scale, in some on a mirco, as you might say on a plot by plot basis if it makes sense. You should follow the local practices and contact the local community before undertaking such large edits. Local guidelines are developed on an ongoing basis for this purpose and the majority of the countries worldwide does not implement landuse on this scale. The examples you refer to are common use outside of Uganda, even outside of Africa, and at least in UG considered as not favourable for our local needs and reality. The wiki, besides the isolated sentence you refer to says also "The extent of the area should mark the boundary of known residential use, not the extent of the whole town or village." What you are mapping is not just the extend of our Capital, Kampala, but even trying to include areas outside the capital district boundaries, into Wakiso district, which neither is managed, belongs too or managed in the same way as the capital. Kampala, meaning the district as it is managed by the city authority KCCA, has so far 588 residential areas mapped, Wakiso district 10912 ! The whole Kampala district could be considered a residential area if I try to follow your reasoning and mapping, we already have a nice administrative boundary relation for that. Your relation tries to overrule this ? Besides this, it is absolutely wrong, locally to align landuse=residential with the boundaries of natural features like wetlands. Encroaching of wetlands is a common detrimental practice in UG. Wetlands are mapped according to the situation on the ground, which in many cases cannot be determined from satellite imagery. All wetlands are community, government owned land. This situation changes rapidly. So we map the encorachers on a neutral basis, adding the buildings and the landuse on an individual basis within the wetlands. So they overlap with the wetlands. Landuse overlaps with natural (or landcover as you like) allowing data consumers to analyse the extend of the mispractices but also retaining a neutral position as a mapper. People are getting killed because of this practice. Another major reason why in UG we don't map landuse on the scale which might be favourable in Western countries.

103074489 over 4 years ago

Hello Jean-Marc, what is the intend of this super-relation ? It conflicts with the local situation on the ground, local mapping practices and I fear it is going to increase the already heated land conflicts in our Capital. Kampla, neither any other Ugandan city is a unified residential zone. We are working for years to map the landuse in the city as neutral as possible, on a detailed, often micro scale. It's like you want to map all of Paris and part of it's suburbs as one huge residential zone. Which is obviously not the case. This relation is going to interfere with all projects and data we offer to various data consumers, overlaps and duplicates already intensively mapped landuse and goes against the practices how the local community maps. So for now, I removed the landuse=residential tag from this relation and will be happy to assist in any philosophy or intend to find appropriate tags for the large job you have done, with the consent of the local community of course.

101356517 over 4 years ago

OK, I was commenting on possible changes in Uganda, as I couldn't find any there. I'm a local and we recently face serious issues with imports.
Service roads I can only agree with the approach, however service roads are interpreted slightly different across the world. In general, a service road can be any road or track not used for general public access. In most cases this means, as you stated that in most cases it branches from a main road or track. This way is in Brasil, so I leave it to the local community there to comment. GPS and Strava are for sure reliable sources for alignment. Also there I made my comment in regard to possible changes in Uganda, where we are since recent making additions of calibration points and offsets in the offsets database. We noticed significant differences between tiles of satellite imagery, especially in mountainous areas and checked those on the ground. But as you say, GPS and Strava are for sure reliable alternative sources. Thank you for replying.

70031477 over 4 years ago

True, the duplicates were created by the multiple imports subsequent to your edit. Most of it was repaired by reverting in this changeset: changeset/101462773#map=13/-0.7592/30.8043. I did include changesets by your team (mainly because of mis-allignment, unattached highways, duplicates) because they fitted in the recovery for this area. This was so large scale it wasn't feasible to trace the history of every problem. So sorry, the duplicates (and unattached highways) where not created by your edit..
Consistent hashes for the Apple Data Team seem to have improved, thank you to the whole team for that.

101285348 over 4 years ago

Dear, please don't do this. You realigned Victoria shores, village boundaries and thousands of features en mass. It's not the mapped features that are wrong, they are all alligned correct with years of field work by the local community. So please revert your changes or ask me to do so. Never do this kind of mass edits without contacting the local community. Regards, Bert Araali

101356517 over 4 years ago

Dear, you are editing to large areas to be managable. You should not edit alignments to better match arial imagery. It's the opposite. The aerial imagery must be alligned to exitsing features, especially when they are traced by local mappers who checked ground truth. Service roads to multiple houses are not be defintion wrong, often they go to larger private properties, even compounds which you could consider as separate villages, it's a wrong interpretation of the highway=service tag from your side. You should always contact the local mapper to decide if it is wrong or not. So please make changesets that only cover smaller geographical areas and stop realligning the map with your imagery. Add what is missing but don't change without consensus with local OSM community.

70025038 over 4 years ago

Hi, thank you for the response. I noticed the Apple team is using the different hashtags more consistently. Good improvement. Thank you.

93862628 over 4 years ago

Reverted changeset after it overlapped with part of Isingiro Town. Please check accurately before uploading. Regards, Bert Araali.

93865130 over 4 years ago

Reverted your changeset after it overlapped existing part of Isingiro town. Regards, Bert Araali. Please check imports accurately before uploading.

70025038 over 4 years ago

Dear, it's not the roads that are misalligned, its the ESRI imagery. Please don't do this kinds of edits without confirming with the local community. Please also use the #Apple hashtag for your edits as in the guidelines. I reverted your edit. Regards, Bert Araali

70031477 over 4 years ago

Hello, we found lots of overlapping, thus duplicate roads and tracks. Could you please use the #Apple if you make edits. I removed the duplicates. Regards, Bert Araali

92663513 over 4 years ago

Dear Bakole import. You overwritten a whole area, nicely mapped and even with 3D mapping. The alignment is incorrect and a lot of items are deleted. You should not do this without contacting the mappers who mapped here before you first. So sorry I reverted the whole import. Regrads, Bert Araali

98407003 almost 5 years ago

Changeset reverted. Please get training.

98407126 almost 5 years ago

Changeset reverted, please get training.

98410647 almost 5 years ago

Changeset reverted. Please get training.

98410714 almost 5 years ago

Changeset reverted. Please get training.

98405256 almost 5 years ago

Changeset reverted. Please get training.

98406092 almost 5 years ago

Changeset reverted ! Get training please.